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Miller Derangement Syndrome

Therion:

Except that this case study is seriously warped, for the follow reasons:

1. The scenario for the TTC worker is basically an outlier - an informative comparison demands comparison of the averages. My guess is - what, the average TTC workers earns what, 70K - so 10 years of additional education gets you an income double that?

2. Overtime - the TTC worker in question has to put in a significant amount of overtime for that level of income - a university prof. doesn't - and one should also compare the amount of hours that actually constitutes work.

How what should be raised as an issue is how much should one be paid for the task of monitoring payment - above and beyond whether this is a task that should be performed through manual labour.

AoD
 
in your example, doesn't guy B make more?

at any rate, compare TTC union wages, and for that matter City of Toronto cashiers and any other unskilled labour to the average wage of a non union unskilled worker, like someone who works in a factory. The market sets that wage at about $10-12/hour. I am sympathetic to paying someone a living wage, but anything over $12/hour is being subsidized by taxes
 
nstuch:

Well, the TTC worker might be considered differently since they are probably required to deal with emergencies as they arise - and the payscale should reflect that.

AoD
 
Actually, professors work considerably more hours than normal:

http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2006/11/how-many-hours-do-professors-work.html

With research, teaching, meetings, committees, etc. I think most profs work more than 50 hours. The TTC guy would have to work about 60 hours a week to make $100,000. I don't think the comparison is as far-fetched as you think.

Edit: Also, U of T profs make the most in the country. The national average is about $15k lower.
 
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Therion:

I work in an academic setting directly under a prof - and I can tell you the amount work by hours varies greatly between profs - not to mention, there is much more flexiblity in how those hours are used in academia.

AoD
 
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It's a moot argument to begin with because it's not a situation unique to Miller. Sure, he could have spent six years fighting the TTC union, going through work stoppages, arbitration, etc, or he could work to improve transit service. Politics is about priorities, and sometimes you just need to work with the hand you've been dealt.
 
Maybe we should think about cutting the police budget.
That's a thought ... crime rates are falling ... and Toronto's are pretty much the lowest in Canada - outside of Quebec at least.

So when do we get the peace dividend?
Click to expand...



That's the same head in the clouds mindset I hate about the left.

Crime rates have fallen, however violent crime with guns especially in public places as gone up or is at a level we should not be comfortable with.

A police officers deserves to get paid so much because he is putting his life on the line.


A cranky guy half asleep on a chair not caring if anyone puts in a proper fare making over $25 dollars needs to be cut.


If you cannot see the difference :rolleyes:


Really, there would be thousands of people lining up to be a TTC collector for like $15 dollars an hour.

That would cut costs greatly and the TTC would not be forced to increase fares. Mind you all the fare increases are going to pay the ever increasing wages. Most of the capital spending comes from the city and other govts.

I think many of you (mostly Miller supporters) think your tax increases are going to building transit or fixing things, but look at the city budget. Wages are increasing greatly and the city every year will have to offset that. The city is not growing much economically, so its revenues do not increase much year by year.

Miller knows he is on a unsustainable path, yet you know what he does??? He makes it even more unsustainable.
 
GM:

And he wouldn't have anything to show for it even if he did all those things - at the end of the day, once it hit arbitration (a given under labour law), cost containment goes kaput.

AoD
 
lordmandeep:

police officers deserves to get paid so much because he is putting his life on the line.
Click to expand...

Really, you have obviously NOT come across incompetency in this regard. That's not to mention the secondary costs that the city and others has to pay in case of SNAFUs. Heads in the cloud you say?

AoD
 
Really the next goal of the Mayor is to control spending but cutting some wastes and then being able to control spending increases so they match up with growth in revenues.

-So he should try to increase revenues...
He can continue to increase property taxes at around 2% a year
Encourage much more economic activity, in the end creating higher tax revenues.

-Cut useless spending
By my example and many others.

-Limit the growth of expenses.
signing labour agreements that the city can fund.

Really, you have obviously NOT come across incompetency in this regard.
Click to expand...

I have, but the question is not incompetency or that because some TTC workers are incompetent they should be paid less.

Its why does a guy need to be paid more then a officer worker for doing a job anyone over the age of 20 can do??\

Also someone mentioned that if a UFT prof gets paid 140k why can't a TTC worker get paid that much. All I have to say to that is :confused:
 
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The Miller glass is at least half-full.

Hey, I would normally be a right-wing guy. Banker, born in Calgary, educated in the US. Miller has done OK. He's raised taxes, which I'm not a fan of, but he's done it relatively small chunks and spread the chunks around.

You absolutely have to take Mel into account when talking about Miller. The right had its chance, and they got a guy elected and then re-elected who was ineffective, then became unfit for office. He clearly didn't have the support he needed, his inner circle was corrupt and his policies awarded his cronies or North York.

(Realtycoon -- I've heard this argument before. The 'See? There's lots of building going on now' crap is ten years of hindsight, and most importantly would have been a LOT more effective if they'd put that subway somewhere useful. Can anyone hear the word 'Eglinton'?)

Miller has at least kept peace with the unions, has lowered business tax rates in the city, and has pushed ahead with a number of big programs (Transit City, the Waterfront transformation.) He might not be the best mayor Toronto has ever had, but he's certainly amongst the best since I've lived here. (I'd list the others, but other than Mel the idiot, all I can remember is that there were two women whose names I don't remember. That can't be good for your 'iconic mayor' status...)
 
Miller has some good policies but he's around his group of cronies as well and I must admit there all idiots ...
 
lordmandeep:

No offense, but you should take a look at what you've typed out first before calling others "idiots" so casually.

AoD
 
lol I don't have to think hard to see the amount of idiots on council on both sides...

thank you very much. :rolleyes:

At least I have noticed that there are idiots on both sides, for many of you think only side is full of idiots.
 
I think the Mayor attracts the same level of deranged hate from fiscal and social conservatives as right-wing politicians do from fiscal and social liberals/progressives. The extremes tend to be inarticulate, lead with their emotions [and think later, if at all], repeat talking points ad nauseum, and crowd the space within which rational and less heated discussions take place. For every person who lobs "fascist" at Harris there is someone who spits "socialist" at Miller, and neither are right.

As someone who is left-leaning I think the biggest disappointment from Miller's terms in office are the hype required to sell him to the centre-left, centre-centre, and centre-right Toronto had to be so thrilling that the real work he has accomplished seems dull, drab, and dispirited by comparison. Real politics is hard to sell newspapers with.
 
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