Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[superelevation]

Don't worry, the debate rages on in the SSE thread. Yes it's been a 3 stop extension since Doug Ford became premier but prior to that, the subway was an one-stop extension to Scarborough Centre so it's been a subway extension for quite some time now.

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Given that surprise surprise the TTC doesn't think they can keep the SRT running, it really seems like we should consider using its corridor instead. . .

It will certainly be something already used somewhere in the world. But, not anything that TTC or GO currently have. Mk-III may be the closest, if we count them as distant relatives of SRT's MK-I.

Wide-bodies TTC subway cars cannot make the turns proposed for OL; in that case we need to go back to RL South, which is not a bad idea but won't fly with the current provincial government.

The issue is not with the train width (OL vehicles will be nearly as wide) it has more to do with train performance. As someone mentioned the turns at Union are super tight.

 

[north-of-anything]

Given that surprise surprise the TTC doesn't think they can keep the SRT running, it really seems like we should consider using its corridor instead. . .

Like this, maybe.

 

[nfitz]

REM simply is not an LRT, it uses larger trains than a number of bonafide metro

Their own website consistenly calls it light rail. Personally, I wouldn't have ... but it would be disrespectful to start labelling it differently ... I'm not going to call the Toronto Subway a metro, the Montreal Metro an Underground, and the London Underground a subway.

The dimensions of the trains misses one of the critical points which is the dwell time difference. ]Width is a log less important than number of doors

I don't think the number of doors has much difference on any of these routes. It's the GO Trains where this becomes an issue.

 

[ARG1]

Their own website consistenly calls it light rail. Personally, I wouldn't have ... but it would be disrespectful to start labelling it differently ... I'm not going to call the Toronto Subway a metro, the Montreal Metro an Underground, and the London Underground a subway.

They call it Light Rail due to the weird translation differences, not because its equivalent to what we call LRT. In French, what we call LRT they would call "tramway". The most accurate description of what the REM is would be Light Metro, akin to the Vancouver Skytain. As for the naming schemes, the Toronto Subway is a metro. Its not called the Toronto Metro, but it is a metro. A metro is literally short for "metropolitan railway" or a railway that runs through the city. The Toronto Subway and London Underground are by definition metros (the latter being the one that INVENTED THE WORD METRO).

 

[TossYourJacket]

The entire definition of a "metro" or "LRT" has become super confusing lately. Ottawa, for example, calls it's system an LRT, but it's functionally a grade-separated light metro system that just happens to run LRVs on the Confederation Line (because of the original intention to run it as an actual LRT in the suburbs, which has been entirely abandoned after a VIA train hit an OC Transpo bus a few years ago). To me anyway, my best guess on definitions is "Metro" = grade separated, "LRT" = tramway/ROW-exclusive streetcar. Although what exactly that makes the Crosstown, idk, since it's kinda both.

 

[junctionist]

A metro has to be grade separated, but LRT is more flexible. LRT can be grade separated or in a street ROW, but it's supposed to be quicker than a tramway or streetcar.

 

[Coolstar]

The entire definition of a "metro" or "LRT" has become super confusing lately. Ottawa, for example, calls it's system an LRT, but it's functionally a grade-separated light metro system that just happens to run LRVs on the Confederation Line (because of the original intention to run it as an actual LRT in the suburbs, which has been entirely abandoned after a VIA train hit an OC Transpo bus a few years ago). To me anyway, my best guess on definitions is "Metro" = grade separated, "LRT" = tramway/ROW-exclusive streetcar. Although what exactly that makes the Crosstown, idk, since it's kinda both.

I have my own weird definitions.

Streetcar - Streetcars travelling in mixed traffic. Streetcar stops are located on the curbside. Streetcars use road signals at traffic lights.

Tramway - Streetcars travelling on a dedicated right of way. Stops are located in the middle of the road. Signal Priority is stronger at traffic lights.

Light Rail - Vehicles that are similar to streetcars but operates at a higher speed. Can be coupled into to form 2 or more cars. Can operate elevated, at-grade or in a tunnel.

Light Metro - Fully grade-separated transit operating frequently. Uses smaller vehicles than a typical metro.

Metro - Fully grade-separated transit operating frequently.

Regional Metro - Fully grade-separated transit operating frequently within the City Centre but frequencies drop the further you get into the suburbs. The length of the lines is usually longer than an average metro. Examples of this can be the BART in San Francisco or WMATA in Washington.

Regional Rail - Transit operating at least every 15 minutes or better. Regional Rail uses heavier rolling stock than an average metro. Fares are integrated with the rest of the transit system and is always electrified. Regional Rail doesn't always have to be fully grade-separated but is preferred.

Commuter Rail - Transit that connects commuters to the city centre from more distant suburbs and commuter towns. Vehicles are heavier than the average metro. Can be seen as a 9 to 5 commuter service. Usually operates at morning and evening rush hour. Fares are usually separate from the transit system and are usually distance-based.

 

[nfitz]

They call it Light Rail due to the weird translation differences, not because its equivalent to what we call LRT. In French, what we call LRT they would call "tramway".

I've seen a lot of photos, and even remnants, of what was called tramways in Montreal!

I suppose the similar system in Ottawa is also called an LRT because of translation differences!

Either way ... I don't see any point if everytime someone refers to the Montreal LRT by it's official name to jump up and point out it isn't an LRT. This isn't difficult ... just use the local English name. Montreal Metro, Paris Metro, Washington Metro, Toronto Subway, New York Subway, Washington Streetcar, Seattle Streetcar, Seattle Link, Toronto Streetcar, Ottawa LRT, Waterloo LRT, Montreal REM LRT, Bangkok Subway, Bangkok Skytrain, Vancouver Skytrain, AirTrain JFK ...

The Toronto subway isn't a subway either, because subways are pedestrian-only. But I don't tweet the TTC to remind them, every time they say the subway is closed. English evolves it isn't written in stone or legislated.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Streetcars and tramsways are the same. Just different countries.

 

[nfitz]

Streetcars and tramsways are the same. Just different countries.

You are off your game today! Where's the historical obligatory image and/or link?

Un tramway pour les 375 bougies de Montréal

En 1967, Montréal s'est doté d'un métro qui a façonné son développement. En 2017, pour son 375e anniversaire, la métropole mérite «un legs de même nature, aussi structurant pour les 50 prochaines années», propose le chef de Projet Montréal, Richard Bergeron: le tramway.

www.lapresse.ca

 

[ARG1]

I suppose the similar system in Ottawa is also called an LRT because of translation differences!

They also call the Trillium Line Light Rail, Ottawa is the last place I'd look for consistent or logical naming schemes.

Either way ... I don't see any point if everytime someone refers to the Montreal LRT by it's official name to jump up and point out it isn't an LRT. This isn't difficult ... just use the local English name. Montreal Metro, Paris Metro, Washington Metro, Toronto Subway, New York Subway, Washington Streetcar, Seattle Streetcar, Seattle Link, Toronto Streetcar, Ottawa LRT, Waterloo LRT, Montreal REM LRT, Bangkok Subway, Bangkok Skytrain, Vancouver Skytrain, AirTrain JFK ...

Who on earth calls it the "Montreal LRT"? Absolutely nobody.

The Toronto subway isn't a subway either, because subways are pedestrian-only. But I don't tweet the TTC to remind them, every time they say the subway is closed. English evolves it isn't written in stone or legislated.

Since when? A subway is in the name, a road or a path that is underground. It doesn't necessarily have to be pedestrian, it could be for cars or trains.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link.
We already have a "Queen Street Subway"! Located at Queen Street West, between Dufferin Street and Gladstone Avenue.

 

[nfitz]

They also call the Trillium Line Light Rail, Ottawa is the last place I'd look for consistent or logical naming schemes.

Service is a lot lighter than the one that goes downtown.

Who on earth calls it the "Montreal LRT"? Absolutely nobody.

I don't understand this comment.

Canada's largest national paper does - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-sector-infrastructure-plans/article34482281/

One of the contractors does - https://www.aecon.com/our-projects/current/reseau-express-metropolitain-rem-montreal-lrt

Global News - https://globalnews.ca/tag/montreal-lrt/

Industry journals do - https://www.railwaypro.com/wp/five-qualified-bidders-for-montreal-lrt/

CBC do - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mont...or-montreal-lrt-radio-canada-learns-1.4039681

Though .. I meant LRT more than "Montreal LRT" - there's no end of references of it being called light rail - even on official websites.

Since when? A subway is in the name, a road or a path that is underground. It doesn't necessarily have to be pedestrian, it could be for cars or trains.

Or a tunnel to carry a sewer, water pipes, gas lines, wires. As I said language evolves ... it was used for pedestrian tunnels, years before it was used for rail. Even in Toronto. But it's not used in that manner much anymore locally - because languages are living, changing, things.

 

[JSF-1]

They call it Light Rail due to the weird translation differences, not because its equivalent to what we call LRT. In French, what we call LRT they would call "tramway". The most accurate description of what the REM is would be Light Metro, akin to the Vancouver Skytain. As for the naming schemes, the Toronto Subway is a metro. Its not called the Toronto Metro, but it is a metro. A metro is literally short for "metropolitan railway" or a railway that runs through the city. The Toronto Subway and London Underground are by definition metros (the latter being the one that INVENTED THE WORD METRO).

You can look at Tokyo to see this in action since they have 2 independent networks, the Tokyo Metro and the Toei Subway. They are both the same thing just under different operators (ones public the other private). Osaka also is another example since pre-privitization the network was called the "Osaka Subway" however after privatization it was renamed to "Osaka Metro".

 

[superelevation]

Service is a lot lighter than the one that goes downtown.

I don't understand this comment.

Canada's largest national paper does - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-sector-infrastructure-plans/article34482281/

One of the contractors does - https://www.aecon.com/our-projects/current/reseau-express-metropolitain-rem-montreal-lrt

Global News - https://globalnews.ca/tag/montreal-lrt/

Industry journals do - https://www.railwaypro.com/wp/five-qualified-bidders-for-montreal-lrt/

CBC do - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mont...or-montreal-lrt-radio-canada-learns-1.4039681

Though .. I meant LRT more than "Montreal LRT" - there's no end of references of it being called light rail - even on official websites.

Or a tunnel to carry a sewer, water pipes, gas lines, wires. As I said language evolves ... it was used for pedestrian tunnels, years before it was used for rail. Even in Toronto. But it's not used in that manner much anymore locally - because languages are living, changing, things.

Not because its LRT but because of careless. The "industry" journalists were probably reading the same badly translated press releases.