Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes, Singapore do this all the time - the largest one currently is the "East Coast Integrated Depot" The Downtown Line Depot is located underground, followed by the Thomson-East Coast Line Depot at-grade, and the East West Line Depot elevated on the level above.

Realistically, the cost of doing this means that it's unlikely to happen to Wilson, given Toronto has lots of space when compared to Singapore/Hong Kong etc. The only real possibility of something like this is a bus garage being built atop the Line 2 Western yard.

Only recently are very dense cities like Paris + London investigating/building multiple storey bus garages due to lack of space - Toronto still has a relatively large amount of industrial land that can be used to build single storey bus garages.

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It's de rigueur in Hong Kong - in fact when we talk about how the capital cost of their system is funded, a good chunk of the money comes from property developments (read condos outside the CBD) atop these depots (Telford Plaza, Luk Yeung Sun Chuen. Chai Wan, LoHAS Park, etc, etc) The only line I can think of where they didn't have this development atop depot is on the Tung Chung/Airport line (but they did have the massive IFC in Central, among other large developments at various stations to compensate).

Railway depots and Hong Kong property development - Checkerboard Hill

With so little free space in Hong Kong, railway depots aren't just open air railway tracks and workshop facilities, but spaces that combine commercial property developments with the services need to keep the trains running. So how does the MTR Corporation use them to fund new rail projects...

www.checkerboardhill.com

I can almost see the possibility of this at some of our yards (Davisville, Greenwood) but I am sure NIMBYs will be out in full force.

AoD

 

[turini2]

The only line I can think of where they didn't have this development atop depot is on the Tung Chung/Airport line (but they did have the massive IFC in Central, among other large developments at various stations to compensate).

MTR is already working on plans to develop that Siu Wan Ho depot site... No problem with NIMBYs when the only neighbours are the sea, forest, railway and a highway...

I submitted bits to the Downsview consultations that a bit of residential at Wilson yard could help buffer the noise of the yard to the (probable) new Development there. That's probably off topic though!

 

[superelevation]

All the way to Richmond Hill? I don't think the demand is there ... not this century at least.

Why would going for lower capacity like the Canada Line be of use? The REM LRT might be closer, but why spend the extra money for grade separation?

REM simply is not an LRT, it uses larger trains than a number of bonafide metro

I'm not sure how a 40-metre train has the same capacity as a 90-metre train. Perhaps true east of Laird, where demand is much lower, but not on the section with no crossings and automated trains where they can run just as frequently.

The dimensions of the trains misses one of the critical points which is the dwell time difference

Right now the Sheppard line is being served by the Wilson Yard. While it might be great to suggest other types of rolling stock, there needs to be a location to store and service them. This is why leaving it as is and just extending it is the easier option. If there isn't the demand for an expansion, then don't do one.

IIRC its Davisville

The crosstown is being built for 90-metre trains. The plan, day 1, is to operate only 60-metre trains, there is no constraint against running 90-metre trains - unlike Vancouver, where they've talked about extending from 40-metre to 60-metre trains, but this would require significant excavation at every station, as unlike Sheppard, they didn't rough-in the extra platform.

The crosstown trains are somewhat narrower, but they are still wider than Line 3, the other Skytrain vehicles, and Montreal metro cars, TTC streetcars, and most London tube stock.

Frequencies will initially be 3 minutes based on capacity. Which is better than the 7-minute waits at peak at the Vancouver Airport for trains - also based on capacity. Like the Crosstown, the Canada Line isn't currently operating at capacity, and would have to get more vehicles to do so.

Width is a log less important than number of doors

 

[MrGoose]

Not to ignite the LRT vs Subway debate, but from the latest planning documents, it seems like Metrolinx has decided to scrap the LRT and just extend the subway. Can anyone confirm?

Future System Map

SSExtension

 

[ARG1]

Not to ignite the LRT vs Subway debate, but from the latest planning documents, it seems like Metrolinx has decided to scrap the LRT and just extend the subway. Can anyone confirm?

View attachment 288479
Future System Map

View attachment 288477
SSExtension

This has been the plan ever since Doug Ford took over.

 

[MrGoose]

This has been the plan ever since Doug Ford took over.

I am way out of the loop lol

 

[micheal_can]

This has been the plan ever since Doug Ford took over.

Some of his ideas aren't horrible.

 

[Coolstar]

Not to ignite the LRT vs Subway debate, but from the latest planning documents, it seems like Metrolinx has decided to scrap the LRT and just extend the subway. Can anyone confirm?

View attachment 288479
Future System Map

View attachment 288477
SSExtension

Don't worry, the debate rages on in the SSE thread. Yes it's been a 3 stop extension since Doug Ford became premier but prior to that, the subway was an one-stop extension to Scarborough Centre so it's been a subway extension for quite some time now.

 

[syn]

It's been on the board for a long time. Rob Ford 'supported' the project but claimed it would be paid for entirely by the private sector.

Can't see it getting off the ground anytime soon given the investment being made with the SSE.

 

[Rainforest]

Nobody knows what will happen on Sheppard East, and when. Could be subway, could be LRT, could be the OL type technology. This route is not in the current batch, has no funding, any intentions / preferences expressed today can be discarded by the future governments and something else can be selected.

 

[micheal_can]

Nobody knows what will happen on Sheppard East, and when. Could be subway, could be LRT, could be the OL type technology. This route is not in the current batch, has no funding, any intentions / preferences expressed today can be discarded by the future governments and something else can be selected.

Until a tender is released, we won't even know what the OL will run. Could be something new, or it could be something already used elsewhere.

 

[Rainforest]

Until a tender is released, we won't even know what the OL will run. Could be something new, or it could be something already used elsewhere.

It will certainly be something already used somewhere in the world. But, not anything that TTC or GO currently have. Mk-III may be the closest, if we count them as distant relatives of SRT's MK-I.

Wide-bodies TTC subway cars cannot make the turns proposed for OL; in that case we need to go back to RL South, which is not a bad idea but won't fly with the current provincial government.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Extend it to Rouge Hill to provide what would be the only uptown commuter rail type route.

 

[chinesehorse]

Wide-bodies TTC subway cars cannot make the turns proposed for OL; in that case we need to go back to RL South, which is not a bad idea but won't fly with the current provincial government.

That's something I've always wondered about - aren't there sharper turns on Line 1 east and west of Union? I'm just comparing the sharp turns proposed in the downtown section of the proposed Ontario Line and the Line 1 overlay provided in this map. Forgive me if it's a dumb question, I'm certainly not a civil engineer.

 

[north-of-anything]

That's something I've always wondered about - aren't there sharper turns on Line 1 east and west of Union? I'm just comparing the sharp turns proposed in the downtown section of the proposed Ontario Line and the Line 1 overlay provided in this map. Forgive me if it's a dumb question, I'm certainly not a civil engineer.

The trains also happen to be considerably slower than average east and west of Union. When the next stop is only 300 to 400 meters away, not reaching top speed isn't a huge issue. In the section between Moss Park and East Harbour, maximum speed is much more important.