Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[micheal_can]

That would be a great solution as well, given that the Sheppard trains right now are only 4 cars long. It also would not require the current line to ever be shut down.

From what I understand, the reason why an LRT was pushed for Sheppard east of Don Mills was that it could run on the street, which isn't strictly necessary - especially on a road that isn't known for its active streetscape. Perhaps an elevated structure in the median with nimbler, OL-style trains could do the trick.

Elevated structure? Isn't the city looking for ways to tear down the elevated sections of the Gardiner?

 

[afransen]

Better level all the 400 series highways with their overpasses, flyovers, etc.

That's some serious whataboutism.

 

[Undead]

Elevated structure? Isn't the city looking for ways to tear down the elevated sections of the Gardiner?

I don't think elevated rail and an elevated highway are as comparable as it may seem at first glance. One has trains rattle by every few minutes, while the other is an incessant din of engine and tire noise. One encourages foot traffic and density, the other discourages it. That both have an elevated structure seems like a superficial similarity to me.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Wouldn't it also be possible just to get new trains that were essentially TRs with TTC gauge but shorter cars? That way you can get smaller turning radii (which could make a hypothetical STC or Malvern route easier) without reconstructing the existing Sheppard line. There's no reason to convert Sheppard to standard gauge, TTC gauge is literally like 6cm/2in wider.

Yes, the original Subway cars were notably shorter than the current stock. The OL stock will likely be similar in length to the G-Series,

 

[Rainforest]

Wouldn't it also be possible just to get new trains that were essentially TRs with TTC gauge but shorter cars? That way you can get smaller turning radii (which could make a hypothetical STC or Malvern route easier) without reconstructing the existing Sheppard line. There's no reason to convert Sheppard to standard gauge, TTC gauge is literally like 6cm/2in wider.

That's an interesting thought. However, the car width might affect the turning radii as well; and TRs are pretty wide at > 3 m. If the car width has to be reduced, then the platforms need to be extended, and then you can as well change the gauge.

Other factors that are not obvious at first, might affect the turning radii and the allowed slopes as well: bogey design, power, brakes design etc.

The idea of custom-made cars that fit into Sheppard tunnel as-is: same width, same gauge, same voltage, but are shorter and are designed for sharper turns and steeper grades to facilitate overground extensions, is intriguing. If doable.

 

[micheal_can]

I don't think elevated rail and an elevated highway are as comparable as it may seem at first glance. One has trains rattle by every few minutes, while the other is an incessant din of engine and tire noise. One encourages foot traffic and density, the other discourages it. That both have an elevated structure seems like a superficial similarity to me.

They both take up valuable space that could be used on further development.

 

[afransen]

Is that space worth billions? Seems to me there is lot of land for redevelopment in the suburbs.

 

[micheal_can]

Is that space worth billions? Seems to me there is lot of land for redevelopment in the suburbs.

It could be. Anything close to a station likely is worth lots to a developer.

 

[north-of-anything]

Will Sheppard ever redevelop to the point where the subway absolutely must be underground? The entire northern side of the street between Yonge and Don Mills is virtually the same as it was when the subway went in. I would say the real development potential in Scarborough is further south (the Golden Mile, Kingston Rd, Lawrence Av, St Clair Av). The priority here should be relieving bus congestion and connecting Scarborough to North York, and both of those can be done above ground in the oversized Sheppard right-of-way. That land can't be worth any more than the land around Victoria Park or Finch West stations. Let's save that money and put it towards Sheppard West.

 

[micheal_can]

Will Sheppard ever redevelop to the point where the subway absolutely must be underground? The entire northern side of the street between Yonge and Don Mills is virtually the same as it was when the subway went in. I would say the real development potential in Scarborough is further south (the Golden Mile, Kingston Rd, Lawrence Av, St Clair Av). The priority here should be relieving bus congestion and connecting Scarborough to North York, and both of those can be done above ground in the oversized Sheppard right-of-way. That land can't be worth any more than the land around Victoria Park or Finch West stations. Let's save that money and put it towards Sheppard West.

Lets look at it a different way: Right now, the Sheppard line goes nowhere. If it was extended to an anchor, like the STC then we would see development along it. Regardless of which way it is extended, use the existing technology. Don't force a transfer on it.

 

[afransen]

I don't think the developers are going to chip in an extra $5B to build underground on that stretch of Sheppard. Do you think we would be foregoing 100,000 units along Sheppard? I doubt it would interfere with any development, and might just require slightly larger setbacks. Sheppard still has lots of single family homes. It's absurd to say that the foregone development potential is worth that much.

 

[Undead]

They both take up valuable space that could be used on further development.

Not really relevant on Sheppard East. It's not like the elevated structure is being built on potentially developable land. Even if Sheppard must be widened to accommodate the structure, it's not like those small strips of land lost to the widening could have been used for development. Low density yellowbelt is a much greater impediment to development than elevated rail. Given the city's transit and congestion problems, merely being next to a subway station, even if the line is elevated, will be enough to induce plenty of development.

 

[11th]

Will Sheppard ever redevelop to the point where the subway absolutely must be underground? The entire northern side of the street between Yonge and Don Mills is virtually the same as it was when the subway went in. I would say the real development potential in Scarborough is further south (the Golden Mile, Kingston Rd, Lawrence Av, St Clair Av). The priority here should be relieving bus congestion and connecting Scarborough to North York, and both of those can be done above ground in the oversized Sheppard right-of-way. That land can't be worth any more than the land around Victoria Park or Finch West stations. Let's save that money and put it towards Sheppard West.

Yonge to Bayview - lack of a Willowdale station and NIMBYism.
Bayview to Leslie - it did change and is still changing.
Leslie to Don Mills - parkland and lack of street facing lots.
Sheppard in Scarborough (west of McCowan) actually has more street facing lots and thus more redevelopment rezoning potential.

 

[Bordercollie]

Do you guys know that they are currently building about ten condos infront of Bessarian station? The plaza will eventually be torndown to build townhouses as well.

 

[drum118]

Do you guys know that they are currently building about ten condos infront of Bessarian station? The plaza will eventually be torndown to build townhouses as well.

So what, and what is that going to do for the current station ridership?? There is a school and community centre going in there as well with the community centre now at grade.

The plaza will not be townhouses, but mix development with mid rise towers currently been built.

With the GO Station being move to Sheppard and the line seeing all day service, why would people use the current subway that will offer a longer trip to the core other than going elsewhere?? It is a car centre, not a transit centre being built with quick access to the over capacity 401.

Have you every driven Sheppard from end to end to see if a subway is needed 50 years down the road when an LRT is more than enough to do the job compare to an BRT that is only needed for the next 40 years??

Sheppard doesn't come close to Yonge or Bloor-Danforth to support a subway.