Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Still Waters]

Any automated fare collection system will allow the ticket collectors to be removed. Presto or Open Payment would both do that. Both would require that the collectors be replaced with Fare Inspectors, probably more of them. In the case of Presto, include also specialized maintenance staff for the new, less robust electronic fare equipment, and a whole raft of new IT people to look after the software and computers that would be needed to keep the system working on the scale needed to serve the TTC's ridership. Presto will not result in savings, it will end up costing the TTC a lot more money, certainly a lot more than any of the smaller transit agencies will have to pay, considering that they get higher subsidies as a proportion of their operating budgets.

Open payments would allow most of the ongoing and capital costs to be borne by the private companies that already have all that capability in place. Why reinvent the wheel? The problem is, over the last few years, no one on the Presto team wanted to listen to the TTC's warnings that it had no money to implement Presto, and now that crisis has come to pass, everyone involved is quite happy to let the TTC take the fall for a supposed "power play" against Metrolinx. It's nothing of the sort, of course, only an attempt to protect it's already-stretched budgets from further outside-imposed drains. There's nothing wrong in principle with full implementation of Presto on the TTC as long as everyone agrees to pay the associated costs. But it seems to me there are better things to do with that money -- like increase actual service on the system, or reduce some of the planned upcoming service cuts.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think it's a reasonable concern that, in five or so years time, 'Presto' will be one of those political buzzwords in the same vein as 'eHealth.' Even allowing for TTC taking some of the blame for dragging their heels, the whole project doesn't strike me as particularly well-managed. And what's the total price tag at this point?

 

[Electrify]

I've never taken transit in York. Do not the zones apply to the other York bus routes?

Yeah, but very few routes do. Actually, the only bus running from Zone 2 to 3 is a GO bus (Newmarket to Beaverton) which accepts YRT fares as long as you don't ride it into Durham Region. The zones are pretty straight forward to all but the most geographically challenged.

 

[reaperexpress]

Yeah, but very few routes do. Actually, the only bus running from Zone 2 to 3 is a GO bus (Newmarket to Beaverton) which accepts YRT fares as long as you don't ride it into Durham Region. The zones are pretty straight forward to all but the most geographically challenged.

Yeah, that's Route 69 Sutton. I expect that it's the only route where anyone ever pays more than a one zone fare. Because of the way zones 1 and 2 overlap, it's nearly impossible to catch people using 1 zone tickets to travel more zones. Tickets are the same no matter where you get them so how could operators or Viva cops know where your trip started from?

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Yeah, that's Route 69 Sutton. I expect that it's the only route where anyone ever pays more than a one zone fare. Because of the way zones 1 and 2 overlap, it's nearly impossible to catch people using 1 zone tickets to travel more zones. Tickets are the same no matter where you get them so how could operators or Viva cops know where your trip started from?

The 98/99 also runs between Zone 1 and Zone 2 during the late night hours when Viva Blue stops operating. Actually its quite easy for fare inspectors to catch you with out a zone upgrade if you travel between zones. When you validate your YRT ticket at a Viva machine, there is a machine number printed on your ticket (along with expiry time and date); they can tell where your coming from.

 

[wyliepoon]

I apologize if this repeats a previous question. With the implementation of a card system, presto or otherwise, how many ticket takers per station can be eliminated?

I don't think the "ticket taker" will be eliminated with Presto, but their workload would be reduced since they don't have to check fares anymore. If Presto becomes fully implemented on the TTC, I'd like to see the turnstile in front of the ticket booth removed, but the booth itself would remain. There would still be a person inside, but that person would be responsible for handling customer questions, selling Presto cards and helping out customers with their Prestos.

Most transit systems that have adopted fare cards didn't eliminate station staff, in the same way that banks didn't cut their staff just because we now have ATMs.

 

[nfitz]

I'd like to see the turnstile in front of the ticket booth removed, but the booth itself would remain. There would still be a person inside, but that person would be responsible for handling customer questions, selling Presto cards and helping out customers with their Prestos.

I don't know why you wouldn't have turnstiles ... though there's be no need for the attendant to still be in the booth with them. They could have a booth somewhere else before the turnstile line.

 

[accura407]

Most transit systems that have adopted fare cards didn't eliminate station staff, in the same way that banks didn't cut their staff just because we now have ATMs.

But i think there is surely a case in Toronto for eliminating staff altogether in low ridership stations that don't meet a certain threshold. Bessarion, Ellesemere, etc.
Then we can keep the collectors on the high traffic stations for the time being then eventually we should automate everything except for key interchanges like Yonge-Bloor or Union.

What's wrong with replacing the turnstiles with the large automatic entrance gates?

 

[reaperexpress]

The 98/99 also runs between Zone 1 and Zone 2 during the late night hours when Viva Blue stops operating. Actually its quite easy for fare inspectors to catch you with out a zone upgrade if you travel between zones. When you validate your YRT ticket at a Viva machine, there is a machine number printed on your ticket (along with expiry time and date); they can tell where your coming from.

Good point. I hadn't thought of the machine number. But that still doesn't explain how to catch people using YRT transfers or passes, or people using YRT buses such as the 98/99.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Good point. I hadn't thought of the machine number. But that still doesn't explain how to catch people using YRT transfers or passes, or people using YRT buses such as the 98/99.

Actually you'll be suprised at how enforced they are; even transfers issued by YRT have identification numbers attached to every individual transfers (ie. located under the "Expired Transfers will not be accepted" there is a number which is something like D00039170). From this number they would be able to catch people, but you also have to remember that the 2 hour time frame given for YRT issued transfers are generally not enough time for a person to travel all the from say Finch to Newmarket when traffic and weather conditions are factored in so a zone upgrade would have to be purchased so that it will cover the rest of the trip or a driver issues a 2 Zone transfer when the passenger requests and pays the cost of travelling between zones. As for passes, I've never really looked at a pass up close so I can't say how easy it'll be for a passenger to travel between zones, but I imagine that there is a identification number attached to it as well.

As for the enforcing, that's a bit of a different story since there isn't really a way to actually see all the identification numbers on passes and transfers in the split second that passengers board YRT buses. But on Viva they can really enforce it since the fare inspectors would have a lot more time to see the transfers/tickets/passes. Also since there's only a few routes that travel through the zone boundary passengers would be concentrated on these, and when frequencies and convenience are considered Viva Blue would be the best choice.

For the 98/99 that travels between the 2 zones, the amount of people taking this bus during the late night times probably isnt really a concern for YRT.

 

[TOareaFan]

It looks like Brampton Transit does not have a lot of work to be ready.....was on a few of their buses (regular routes, not Zum) yesterday and all of them had presto readers that were on but displaying the message "not in service".

 

[Jonny5]

Will I qualify for the Federal Public Transit Tax Credit?
Yes, if your card is registered, and provided you use your PRESTO card for at least 32 one-way trips within a single transit system during any calendar month. The statement can be downloaded from the PRESTO website from February 01 to May 31.

February 2 and I don't see it available yet.

 

[TOareaFan]

Bramalea GO is now up and running PRESTO.

Twenty more days to get the last two G-line stations live and make their (revised) schedule! Yippee things are looking up!

Another missed deadline!!!!!

As since discussed, there is no longer even an estimated timeline for this now.

 

[DKsan]

It looks like Brampton Transit does not have a lot of work to be ready.....was on a few of their buses (regular routes, not Zum) yesterday and all of them had presto readers that were on but displaying the message "not in service".

They've been like that since late August though. I think they're waiting for the Georgetown line to be fully operational now, because PRESTO was supposed to be available in late fall last year.

 

[TOareaFan]

They've been like that since late August though. I think they're waiting for the Georgetown line to be fully operational now, because PRESTO was supposed to be available in late fall last year.

I think the Brampton station (the one with no known time for implementation) is the only one on the Georgetown line not operational!