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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Megaton327 said:
No idea why Metrolinx decided to shun the iPhone for this. Maybe received a payout from Google.
Click to expand...

Android's free to use NFC APIs let you emulate any Mifare based card system you like, even without your app open. Apple's don't let you emulate a card at all, instead you have to hammer out an agreement to integrate your ecosystem with Apple Pay, specifically an agreement that always gives them a cut. If they do integrate with Apple, the price will go up. :-(

Compared to Apple's pay-to-play system, free APIs could be considered a payout. Man, those evil Google people!
 
KevinT said:
Android's free to use NFC APIs let you emulate any Mifare based card system you like, even without your app open. Apple's don't let you emulate a card at all, instead you have to hammer out an agreement to integrate your ecosystem with Apple Pay, specifically an agreement that always gives them a cut. If they do integrate with Apple, the price will go up. :-(

Compared to Apple's pay-to-play system, free APIs could be considered a payout. Man, those evil Google people!
Click to expand...

Megaton327 said:
There are no such restrictions on the iPhone. The iPhone supports transit farecards virtually identical in functionality to Presto, such as the Suica card (Japan) - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207154

No idea why Metrolinx decided to shun the iPhone for this. Maybe received a payout from Google.
Click to expand...

There are many restrictions, like mentioned by @KevinT. Just think about how you can pair Bluetooth headphones on Android just by holding them next to your phone and using NFC to pair, you can't do that on iOS and iPhone.
 
Leo_Chan said:
No it doesn't. It's unfortunate that tapping on readers (and your card to update card's balance) is only on Android, but I don't blame Presto or Metrolinx as this is Apple's restrictions on what NFC on iPhone can do.
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Leo are you going to ask them about timeline?
 
Leo_Chan said:
No it doesn't. It's unfortunate that tapping on readers (and your card to update card's balance) is only on Android, but I don't blame Presto or Metrolinx as this is Apple's restrictions on what NFC on iPhone can do.
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OK, just asked an insider. First step will be October. Android tap has to wait till next year.
 
I agree that the closed access to iPhone NFC is annoying, but it definitely goes along with Apple's "It just works" mantra. You can read about why in Japan JR didn't move towards open payments. Contactless transactions in Japan for transit clear instantaneously, rather than the short pause before the presto card registers a read.

https://atadistance.net/2018/03/12/the-contactless-payment-turf-wars-transit/
 
rdcezar said:
I agree that the closed access to iPhone NFC is annoying, but it definitely goes along with Apple's "It just works" mantra. You can read about why in Japan JR didn't move towards open payments. Contactless transactions in Japan for transit clear instantaneously, rather than the short pause before the presto card registers a read.
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Short pause? Should be the same speed. Presto readers only talk to the card - there's no attempt to communicate with the network when reading a Presto card. I'm not sure how Presto on debit/credit will work though ...
 
In today's Metrolinx Board Meeting, there was a mention on Apple contacting them (earlier in the day so not officially in presentation prepared) about being interested with integrating Presto tapping with Apple Pay and NFC.

There was also a bit on a demo of an Android phone tapping on the Presto reader.
 
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I definitely welcome the idea of tapping with a smartphone, but specific to the iPhone, tapping with FaceID may be complicated given the placement of the card reader on the Presto machines. They're mounted vertically, and designed to be tapped easily by someone walking by (and be accessible to someone in a wheelchair). Most NFC payment terminals are usually lying horizontally on a counter or something, so the phone is more or less facing directly up when the payment is authorized. That's going to be big time awkward to try and get close enough to the Presto terminal to read the phone, AND keep the phone locked on your face.

Of course, if this expansion for ApplePay also includes availability for the Apple Watch (or any other smart watch for that matter), then this is definitely a positive step. I just wanted to point out the potential awkwardness though.
 
gweed123 said:
I definitely welcome the idea of tapping with a smartphone, but specific to the iPhone, tapping with FaceID may be complicated given the placement of the card reader on the Presto machines. They're mounted vertically, and designed to be tapped easily by someone walking by (and be accessible to someone in a wheelchair). Most NFC payment terminals are usually lying horizontally on a counter or something, so the phone is more or less facing directly up when the payment is authorized. That's going to be big time awkward to try and get close enough to the Presto terminal to read the phone, AND keep the phone locked on your face.

Of course, if this expansion for ApplePay also includes availability for the Apple Watch (or any other smart watch for that matter), then this is definitely a positive step. I just wanted to point out the potential awkwardness though.
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In the demo with the Android phone, it showed tapping on reader without unlocking the phone at all, just the off screen. I'm not sure if Apple Pay has this feature as it would be a security flaw, even though anyone can currently use your Presto card (can you imagine requiring a PIN to tap your Presto Card? :D).

If using FaceID, TouchID, or passcode are not required to tap, it would be a great convenience.
 
Leo_Chan said:
In the demo with the Android phone, it showed tapping on reader without unlocking the phone at all, just the off screen. I'm not sure if Apple Pay has this feature as it would be a security flaw, even though anyone can currently use your Presto card (can you imagine requiring a PIN to tap your Presto Card? :D).

If using FaceID, TouchID, or passcode are not required to tap, it would be a great convenience.
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Admittedly I only have the iPhone 7, so I haven't had first-hand experience with FaceID yet, but even 3rd party cards like ChargePoint (used on EV charging stations, quite similar to a Presto setup come to think of it) still require TouchID in order to process the transcation. I'd imagine that Presto would be the same, especially if it's loaded into Wallet like other 3rd party cards.
 
gweed123 said:
Admittedly I only have the iPhone 7, so I haven't had first-hand experience with FaceID yet, but even 3rd party cards like ChargePoint (used on EV charging stations, quite similar to a Presto setup come to think of it) still require TouchID in order to process the transcation. I'd imagine that Presto would be the same, especially if it's loaded into Wallet like other 3rd party cards.
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Of course this discussion is more fit for an Apple/iPhone forum/subreddit.

I have an iPhone 8, so I still have TouchID, and IMO is more natural to use as payment than FaceID on iPhone X, which I tried. It is much more natural to double click home button, keep thumb rested on TouchID sensor, and move device on top of reader rather than double press side button, look at phone with FaceID, and move device on top of reader. Of course, Apple Watch will probably be able to be used as well, so it only requires double pressing the side button and move watch (though it's usually left arm onto right side reader) on top of reader.

Probably a small detail, but I hope the iPhone will not make the "bah-ding" sound effect when tapping on the Presto reader, but instead the "blah", "blah bla", or "blun" the reader normally makes. Don't want the sound effects to contradict. :rolleyes:
 
Leo_Chan said:
Of course this discussion is more fit for an Apple/iPhone forum/subreddit.

I have an iPhone 8, so I still have TouchID, and IMO is more natural to use as payment than FaceID on iPhone X, which I tried. It is much more natural to double click home button, keep thumb rested on TouchID sensor, and move device on top of reader rather than double press side button, look at phone with FaceID, and move device on top of reader. Of course, Apple Watch will probably be able to be used as well, so it only requires double pressing the side button and move watch (though it's usually left arm onto right side reader) on top of reader.

Probably a small detail, but I hope the iPhone will not make the "bah-ding" sound effect when tapping on the Presto reader, but instead the "blah", "blah bla", or "blun" the reader normally makes. Don't want the sound effects to contradict. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Agreed on all counts, though I suspect that it will in fact generate both sound effects: the bing from your phone and the blun from the reader, haha.
 
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