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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Leo_Chan

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Im just an average joe, but can't they implement presto readers with buttons on express routes, then program the buttons for certain things? For example, Default - Full fare. Button 2 - Express Top-up (which the backend checks if there's a current fare paid or metro pass enabled) similar to how Viva use to do it with zone 1 and zone 2????
Unfortunately, 1st generation Presto Readers are better than 2nd generation Presto Readers, in the front end that is.
 

Megaton327

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Im just an average joe, but can't they implement presto readers with buttons on express routes, then program the buttons for certain things? For example, Default - Full fare. Button 2 - Express Top-up (which the backend checks if there's a current fare paid or metro pass enabled) similar to how Viva use to do it with zone 1 and zone 2????
That relies on the honour system for passengers to do it. Buses don't have fare inspectors. Going proof of payment has been determined to be prohibitively difficult and expensive on the bus network, and doing it on express buses only would still have lots of logistical difficulties and provide a very inconsistent set of rules for passengers to follow.
 

WillTo

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They definitely do. If you take the same bus route twice in two hours, you get charged twice.
I've definitely taken a return trip (Steeles East) and it counted as a transfer. Could be because the route has both express and local buses.
 

PinkLucy

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I have taken numerous return trips using the same streetcar that Presto counted as one trip. However, if I got off and then got on the same route going in the same direction, I was charged a second fare.
 

salsa

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Since they can't seem to figure out how to get presto to work here, maybe it's time to just abolish that second fare which is ridiculous to begin with.
 

nfitz

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They definitely do. If you take the same bus route twice in two hours, you get charged twice.
Most of the time. Not when the vehicles don't know what route they are on.

I believe streetcars do too, which is why there are occasionally complaints about streetcar transfers - operators sometimes put in the wrong route number on the old streetcars which causes transfers to not be recognized
Input into what? They haven't got the input devices yet. You are theorizing here.

Im just an average joe, but can't they implement presto readers with buttons on express routes, then program the buttons for certain things? For example, Default - Full fare. Button 2 - Express Top-up (which the backend checks if there's a current fare paid or metro pass enabled) similar to how Viva use to do it with zone 1 and zone 2????
They can get express routes to work, once they finish implementing Presto.,
 

crs1026

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Here's my latest oddity.
Transfer is correct, but the location was certainly not Queensway garage. It was actually Old Mill Subway. This can't be a one-of error, must have been affecting every card tapped on this bus, probably since the start of shift.
The irony being, I watched this bus (66) come all the way up Prince Edward to the subway, on my phone, using Nextbus. Apparently Nextbus can know where my bus is, but the Presto reader on the bus doesn't.
Screen Shot 2017-12-01 at 4.36.08 PM.png

- Paul
 

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WillTo

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Here's my latest oddity.
Transfer is correct, but the location was certainly not Queensway garage. It was actually Old Mill Subway. This can't be a one-of error, must have been affecting every card tapped on this bus, probably since the start of shift.
The irony being, I watched this bus (66) come all the way up Prince Edward to the subway, on my phone, using Nextbus. Apparently Nextbus can know where my bus is, but the Presto reader on the bus doesn't.
View attachment 128951
- Paul
Yep, I think people are getting all sorts of weird locations or null values. Only thing I haven't seen was a reading from a streetcar somewhere where there is no track :)
 

TransitBart

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Ok. I’ll take the bait. I don’t know anything.

How is it possible to get all these weird locations?

And elsewhere on this thread someone commented that TTC buses had less equipment installed associated with the PRESTO system.

What is up? Why is this installation performing so strangely at times?
 

Kitsune

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I've had a Tap at Dupont read all sorts of locations on the otherside of the city, its allowed me to do a fake circle route once.
 

amnesiajune

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Transfer is correct, but the location was certainly not Queensway garage. It was actually Old Mill Subway. This can't be a one-of error, must have been affecting every card tapped on this bus, probably since the start of shift.
The irony being, I watched this bus (66) come all the way up Prince Edward to the subway, on my phone, using Nextbus. Apparently Nextbus can know where my bus is, but the Presto reader on the bus doesn't.
How is it possible to get all these weird locations?
I think the location defaults to the bus's or route's garage if Presto can't figure out the location. In any case, it doesn't matter - the location of the bus isn't considered when it's figuring out if you have a valid transfer, just the route (and whether or not the two routes actually intersect doesn't seem to be considered either).
 

johntauren

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I think the location defaults to the bus's or route's garage if Presto can't figure out the location. In any case, it doesn't matter - the location of the bus isn't considered when it's figuring out if you have a valid transfer, just the route (and whether or not the two routes actually intersect doesn't seem to be considered either).
I've had weird locations in Brampton, and nothing to do with where the garages are.
It's often off by a few stops (usually the nearest major timed stop), but sometimes it's been off by entire routes. I've had taps at Bramalea Go show as Kennedy/Vodden once.
 

W. K. Lis

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Green means "GO', grey means "UPX". Green means "GO', grey means "UPX". Green means "GO', grey means "UPX". Green means "GO', grey means "UPX". Green means "GO', grey means "UPX". Green means "GO', grey means "UPX".



Then why are the green machines doing on a UPX platform? ARRGHHH!
 

crs1026

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I think the location defaults to the bus's or route's garage if Presto can't figure out the location. In any case, it doesn't matter - the location of the bus isn't considered when it's figuring out if you have a valid transfer, just the route (and whether or not the two routes actually intersect doesn't seem to be considered either).
The explanation that a contact gave me today is - Presto does not access the vehicle's AVL (Automatic Vehicle Location) transponder but generates its own position data, and the Presto version is more primitive and relies to some degree on 'dead reckoning'. So the transit control center knows exactly where the bus is but Presto doesn't.
Location may not matter to the fare calculation just yet, but if ML truly intends to move to fare by distance, it will matter a lot more in the future. I wonder if the technology is up to that standard.

- Paul
 

amnesiajune

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Location may not matter to the fare calculation just yet, but if ML truly intends to move to fare by distance
Metrolinx doesn't plan on using vehicle location data for FBD. Their FBD plans involve flat fares for local transit, and FBD for things like commuter rail, subways, LRT and BRT where tapping off (at fixed card readers) is feasible.
 

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