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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

PinkLucy said:
But they didn't get that. Instead, they lost two credits.
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I think the problem is even larger. After the tax credit came into place, the TTC started to dramatically raise the price of the metropass, and increasing the number of rides to get to the break-even point. In fact, when watching the TTC budget meetings, I noticed always used the price of the (metropass - tax credit) to measure affordability. Now that it's gone, they aren't going to lower the price of the metropass. Furthermore, because the ratio will be so skewed going forward, they will likely have to increase the cash fare and token price more over the next few years to "catch-up", which means an even larger impact on low-income people.
 
goreckm said:
After the tax credit came into place, the TTC started to dramatically raise the price of the metropass, and increasing the number of rides to get to the break-even point.
Click to expand...

Not true - the current tokens per pass (146.25/3 = 48.25) isn't any higher than before the tax credit. On January 1st 2007, it was $99.75 and $2.10, which works out to 47.5 fares. Before the 2003 fare hike it was $1.80 and $93.50, which works out to 52 fares (but it's worth noting, metropasses included free parking at some subway stations until 2005)
 
amnesiajune said:
Not true - the current tokens per pass (146.25/3 = 48.25) isn't any higher than before the tax credit. On January 1st 2007, it was $99.75 and $2.10, which works out to 47.5 fares. Before the 2003 fare hike it was $1.80 and $93.50, which works out to 52 fares (but it's worth noting, metropasses included free parking at some subway stations until 2005)
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Free parking ended in 2008, and that was worth something to me. When they introduced pay parking, it was $3 a day x 5 days a week, x 4 weeks = 60$
 
steveintoronto said:
...I see it's dinged me multiples of the fare that it should.

Get back home in a couple of hours, talk to service rep on the south entrance: "You have to phone them (she was nice, always is, gave me card with the number) but it sounds like you must have failed to have tapped off some months back" Huh? I've been using it a couple of times a week at least.

So phone them up, service rep is bewildered, puts me on hold for a few minutes, comes back: "We're going to refund that overcharge, which machine did you tap on to?" They had to put in a service report, I gave my details so their tech could find the right machine. It seems, without even doing a tech service check, that it's faulty. As to why and how much and how often has to be determined by their tech team. At the very least, it gave the wrong message, it should have been "Insufficient Funds"....

Never a dull moment with glitches. It pays to keep checking your balance.
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This is why I still haven't switched to Presto even though I'd like to use a refillable card. I'm self-employed and I don't have a lot of money and I can't afford multiple fares on a simple subway ride.

Do you mind if I ask if you did eventually get refunded in full?
 
books said:
This is why I still haven't switched to Presto even though I'd like to use a refillable card. I'm self-employed and I don't have a lot of money and I can't afford multiple fares on a simple subway ride.

Do you mind if I ask if you did eventually get refunded in full?
Click to expand...
The TTC typically refunds by mailing out tokes because as of right now they don't have access to refund presto yet as it's not fully deployed across the system. There are a few big changes coming soon though, in the summer they will be addiing daily and weekly pasesas in once you reach the value of it in a day or in a week it will sop charging you. In addition the will be adding the monthly metropass to it which will be a separate add on. Also by the end of the year they are looking to stop selling all fare media s we currently know it. Tokens and tickets will eventually be replaced by a one time use RFID paper ticket.
 
^
I phoned TTC Customer Service a few months ago and they asked for my Presto card #. A few weeks later the refund showed up.
 
books said:
This is why I still haven't switched to Presto even though I'd like to use a refillable card. I'm self-employed and I don't have a lot of money and I can't afford multiple fares on a simple subway ride.

Do you mind if I ask if you did eventually get refunded in full?
Click to expand...
I did! It showed on the card about five days later. There was acknowledgement that some of the machines are problematic. This is quite a change in attitude from some earlier events, and comments in these forums, where the reaction was "It must be something you did wrong". We now know that not to be the case. I did offer to meet one of their techs (I'm one in a different area of electronics) to point out the exact machine and the response it gave me. Haven't heard back from them on that though. It may even have been a system glitch, not that particular terminal.

Reading the other posts, I've got to point out this was a GO reader on a platform. It's within the realm of possibility that the card was corrupted, as I work next to very high magnetic fields at times, even though the medium for the card is RFID, in the trade, there are known issues with that. In the event, I loaded the card right after, and it went without a problem, albeit 'reflashing' in itself can correct some corrupted bits.

Edit to Add: I just checked a few sources for my "very high magnetic field" claim...lol...and as a tech functioning at the engineering level (transformer design and development) I can call BS on some of the counterclaims:

e.g:
[I do not believe that a magnetic field would have much effect on an RFID transponder (if any of our readers have information about this, they are invited to please post it below). However, if you exposed a tag to a strong burst of electromagnetic energy, that would likely blow the circuits in the microchip—just like plugging a radio designed to use 110 volts would be fried if you plugged it into a 220-volt socket—and thus render it inoperable.]

—Mark Roberti, Founder and Editor, RFID Journal

He may be a journalist, but he's no engineer. First off, the *type* and characteristic of the magnetic field has not been identified. He must be referring to a permanent magnet field, not a magnetic field that is induced from alternating current.

Best I offer a link:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/rfid_zapper.html
 
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steveintoronto said:
I did! It showed on the card about five days later. There was acknowledgement that some of the machines are problematic. This is quite a change in attitude from some earlier events, and comments in these forums, where the reaction was "It must be something you did wrong". We now know that not to be the case. I did offer to meet one of their techs (I'm one in a different area of electronics) to point out the exact machine and the response it gave me. Haven't heard back from them on that though. It may even have been a system glitch, not that particular terminal.

Reading the other posts, I've got to point out this was a GO reader on a platform. It's within the realm of possibility that the card was corrupted, as I work next to very high magnetic fields at times, even though the medium for the card is RFID, in the trade, there are known issues with that. In the event, I loaded the card right after, and it went without a problem, albeit 'reflashing' in itself can correct some corrupted bits.

Edit to Add: I just checked a few sources for my "very high magnetic field" claim...lol...and as a tech functioning at the engineering level (transformer design and development) I can call BS on some of the counterclaims:

e.g:
[I do not believe that a magnetic field would have much effect on an RFID transponder (if any of our readers have information about this, they are invited to please post it below). However, if you exposed a tag to a strong burst of electromagnetic energy, that would likely blow the circuits in the microchip—just like plugging a radio designed to use 110 volts would be fried if you plugged it into a 220-volt socket—and thus render it inoperable.]

—Mark Roberti, Founder and Editor, RFID Journal

He may be a journalist, but he's no engineer. First off, the *type* and characteristic of the magnetic field has not been identified. He must be referring to a permanent magnet field, not a magnetic field that is induced from alternating current.

Best I offer a link:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/rfid_zapper.html
Click to expand...


Thanks for your reply. Based on what you, EastYorkTTCFan, and WillTo have said, I can draw two conclusions:

1.) TTC customer service is more customer friendly in regards to Presto card problems. They seem to be more willing to acknowledge problems with the system and not immediately assume misuse of the system by customers. This may be natural given the length of time that Presto cards have been in use, i.e., the TTC assumes that people know how to use the card by now.

2.) A refund is given as tokens but this should change by the end of the year since the TTC will stop selling tokens and they will want to get tokens out of circulation, hence no tokens handed out as refunds after this year.

I can't shake the feeling that the TTC or MetroLinx or whoever is pushing the public to adopt a system that still suffers from serious defects. On the other hand, I really don't have much choice as far as becoming a guinea pig myself in the near future.
 
books said:
I can't shake the feeling that the TTC or MetroLinx or whoever is pushing the public to adopt a system that still suffers from serious defects. On the other hand, I really don't have much choice as far as becoming a guinea pig myself in the near future.
Click to expand...
Presto is metrolinx baby and always has been the TTC got shoehorned into it when they were looking for their own system, so Metrolinx is having to adapt it to fit the needs of the TTC. The other systems all had simpler fare structures and didn't have as many requirements as the TTC plus they didn't put it live as they were building it. Go Transit did test it on a few lines first but they didn't make it system wide until it was all in place. The TTC is in a unique position because the areas outside of it had it first and thus people transferring from YRT, GO Transit and others from outside the city are all used to using it so the TTC had to make it active well they installed it.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Presto is metrolinx baby and always has been the TTC got shoehorned into it when they were looking for their own system, so Metrolinx is having to adapt it to fit the needs of the TTC. The other systems all had simpler fare structures and didn't have as many requirements as the TTC plus they didn't put it live as they were building it. Go Transit did test it on a few lines first but they didn't make it system wide until it was all in place. The TTC is in a unique position because the areas outside of it had it first and thus people transferring from YRT, GO Transit and others from outside the city are all used to using it so the TTC had to make it active well they installed it.
Click to expand...

So Metrolinx shoulders most of the blame for Presto's stumbling stage debut in Toronto. Although just because people from the 905 region are used to using Presto doesn't mean the TTC couldn't have installed Presto and then made it live after a complete installation. The only reason I can see to do it the way they are is to use the public as guinea pigs to works out the bugs, in which case they should have a grace period which allows for systemic problems as well as user errors.
 
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