Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Megaton327]

Per @W. K. Lis in the TTC Other Items thread, the federal public transit pass tax credit is being axed http://globalnews.ca/news/3327986/federal-budget-2017-tax-credits-transit-alcohol-money/

This will include Presto for all participating agencies. One of the big advantages of Presto was that for people who take 32 or more rides in a month, but not enough to justify a pass, they became eligible for the tax credit where with tickets/tokens they wouldn't have been in the past. I know that a small percentage of TTC passengers who use tokens considered this a not-insignificant reason to jump over to using Presto, so people will likely be displeased to use it.

That being said, I actually agree with axing it. A lot of people who didn't need the few bucks back were getting the credit, the poor are better served by cheaper fares than tax credits. Also, claiming it through Presto was notoriously difficult as Metrolinx ignored repeated warnings from the CRA and just about everybody who ever tried to claim the credit, informing them that their usage report was not a valid document for the credit due to lacking the cardholder name. They gave it such a shoddy effort that it turned into a needless nightmare--no more of that, at least, not to mention waiting until March 1st each year to release it when many people submit file their taxes well before that.

 

[W. K. Lis]

There could be a provincial public transit tax credit in a future provincial budget. Maybe before the next provincial general election?

 

[salsa]

LOL

 

[amnesiajune]

Cubic, the company that rolled it out, does have a rather impressive list of customers though and would have been a good choice to buy an off-the-shelf fare-card from instead of rolling our own.

Nearly everything about Presto is "off-the-shelf". They buy existing products and services to build the system. If you mean going to another city and licensing their fare system, why does hardly anyone do it if it's such a good choice?

There could be a provincial public transit tax credit in a future provincial budget.

Public transit tax credits don't make any sense. They're expensive and barely influence people's decisions. The tax credit increased transit usage by less than one percentage point per year.

If the provincial government wanted to do something (and they probably couldn't care less right now), they should provide transit funding instead, and make that funding conditional on a hard cap for single fares and weekly/monthly passes (or even better, make fare integration a condition for that funding in the GTA)

 

[TOareaFan]

Public transit tax credits don't make any sense. They're expensive and barely influence people's decisions. The tax credit increased transit usage by less than one percentage point per year.

You really have no way of knowing that.....there are so many factors that go into the decision of riding transit it is impossible (without asking everyone) to know what impact it had.

If the provincial government wanted to do something (and they probably couldn't care less right now), they should provide transit funding instead, and make that funding conditional on a hard cap for single fares and weekly/monthly passes (or even better, make fare integration a condition for that funding in the GTA)

In doubling the gas tax distribution to municipalities the province gave the municipalities free reign on how it can be used...as long as it is used for transit. Municipality A could use it all to buy a fleet of buses in the hopes of building such a great service that lots of people will use it no matter how much they charge.....Municipality B might not build any more transit (thinking they have enough) and use the new gas tax revenue to keep fares where they are or even lower them. Municiaplity T might use it for one mega project and then go back to QP pleading poverty and asking for more money.

 

[amnesiajune]

You really have no way of knowing that.....there are so many factors that go into the decision of riding transit it is impossible (without asking everyone) to know what impact it had.

There was a study from the University of Ottawa that said exactly that (here's a link to it). Their main criticism of the plan is that it's not a direct subsidy. You don't get the subsidy until the next calendar year. It would be a lot more effective to provide an immediate 15% discount for transit passes, but that would require some way of making sure that transit providers actually pass that subsidy onto riders instead of absorbing it without dropping prices (or only briefly dropping prices).

In doubling the gas tax distribution to municipalities the province gave the municipalities free reign on how it can be used...as long as it is used for transit.

Okay. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about additional funding which could go directly to local public transit agencies, and only if they keep fares below a level that the province deems reasonable.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Something I took note of that Andy Byford said during the last TTC meeting about the implementation of Presto in Toronto. Ordinarily with a system like it you would wait until it's ready to use across the system rather then piece it together like the TTC has been doping. The TTC went live with Presto because all of the surrounding transit was using it and people using it were expecting to do so in Toronto, hence why the first stations were ones wer connections to outside Transit were converted first. Next they added all of the downtown stations for the Pan AM games. Streecats wer orgianly palkned to habe the new cars only have presto on them but they added it to the existing fleet. Now they are playing catch up and installing new gates as many stations still have there original gates from many years ago or had ones that presto had been grafted on to.

 

[ssiguy2]

While I agree that the transit tax credit did little for low income worker, it was a benefit to the middle class and those who had to buy transit passes for their kids in school. A direct subsidy is better but, as far as I know and correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't replace it with anything.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Something I took note of that Andy Byford said during the last TTC meeting about the implementation of Presto in Toronto. Ordinarily with a system like it you would wait until it's ready to use across the system rather then piece it together like the TTC has been doping. The TTC went live with Presto because all of the surrounding transit was using it and people using it were expecting to do so in Toronto, hence why the first stations were ones wer connections to outside Transit were converted first. Next they added all of the downtown stations for the Pan AM games. Streecats wer orgianly palkned to habe the new cars only have presto on them but they added it to the existing fleet. Now they are playing catch up and installing new gates as many stations still have there original gates from many years ago or had ones that presto had been grafted on to.

Now the question is if they made the right decision or not. I would say they did make the right decision as people requested to be able to use their Presto card, but when the system didn't work, they had to face more questions and bad PR.

 

[amnesiajune]

It was a benefit to the middle class and those who had to buy transit passes for their kids in school

Sure, but was it a necessary benefit? Governments tend to have a love affair with what are known as "boutique tax credits" where some random and specific thing gets a tax credit so political parties can appeal to their base or reach out to a new constituency. They're not meant to be effective. The previous government introduced things like this transit tax credit and a credit for putting your kids in sports programs. This government brought in a tax credit for teachers who buy school supplies.

 

[PinkLucy]

I work with low income people. The transit tax credit and the recreational kids' credit were important to them.

 

[amnesiajune]

I work with low income people. The transit tax credit and the recreational kids' credit were important to them.

Low-income people can be better served by a tax rebate based on their income, rather than tiny non-refundable credits that (A) still require them to spend a hefty amount of money, and (B) are given out to anyone regardless of their income level.

 

[PinkLucy]

But they didn't get that. Instead, they lost two credits.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Now the question is if they made the right decision or not. I would say they did make the right decision as people requested to be able to use their Presto card, but when the system didn't work, they had to face more questions and bad PR.

I think it came down to what wa more convenient for customers, unfortunately what is now happening is you have poel in the city that don't understand what or how to use Presto. If you look at lot of the comments on Prestos facebook post you can see most poel don't understand that it's not a TTC only thing or think that they should give away the cards for free plus they also complain about having to set up the card for diffrent things or not being able to pay for two people on the same card.

 

[amnesiajune]

Something interesting... Presto is apparently considering an autoload option where you load money on a certain day each week/month, rather than just having it reload when you're low on funds.