Metrolinx: Other Items (catch all)

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Plugs on go tr

Just curious does anyone here know what the plug/outlet situation is like on the Niagara GO trains?

Outlets are spotty on any Go train service. Mostly the rule of thumb seems to be that they are on the newer cars, so it can be hit or iss if you get on a car that has them.

 

[ssiguy2]

Posting this here because I am not sure where else I would:

XPost with the Montreal Metro thread: Design options for the REM cars in Montreal are out: Design options for the REM Cars are out: https://designrem.info/en/?_cldee=Y...bf4&esid=ab250a6a-9c83-e811-a961-000d3af3d307

Amazing. Montreal introduced the idea of REM less than 2 years ago and will open years before RER, be completely grade separated, have a downtown tunnel, and they have already decided on the vehicles and hence platforms. Meanwhile in Toronto, RER has been debated for over a decade, billions have been spent but they have yet to electrify one foot, they haven`t even figured out what vehicles they are going to use, technology, or even platform levels but dear God Toronto is now home to some of the nicest parking garages to be found anywhere.

 

[ssiguy2]

Metrolinx is a microcosm of 15 years of Liberal rule. Good ideas, implemented poorly that will probably be blown up by Ford.

This is very true. Considering the billions they have spent on RER they have achieved shockingly little. Like the Ontario Liberals, brag about the billions you are spending on something but don`t worry if the money is actually achieving anything. If Ford does indeed ditch Metrolinx it will be their own fault. It is a seething mess of unaccountability, incompetence, and fiscal mismanagement, Of course when you look up who created, funded, and ran the damn things this is hardly surprising.

 

[hw621]

This is very true. Considering the billions they have spent on RER they have achieved shockingly little. Like the Ontario Liberals, brag about the billions you are spending on something but don`t worry if the money is actually achieving anything. If Ford does indeed ditch Metrolinx it will be their own fault. It is a seething mess of unaccountability, incompetence, and fiscal mismanagement, Of course when you look up who created, funded, and ran the damn things this is hardly surprising.

Here is the sad part: Ford may ditch them, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we are getting better.

 

[44 North]

Amazing. Montreal introduced the idea of REM less than 2 years ago and will open years before RER, be completely grade separated, have a downtown tunnel, and they have already decided on the vehicles and hence platforms. Meanwhile in Toronto, RER has been debated for over a decade, billions have been spent but they have yet to electrify one foot, they haven`t even figured out what vehicles they are going to use, technology, or even platform levels but dear God Toronto is now home to some of the nicest parking garages to be found anywhere.

I agree with your other points, REM is very exciting and fun to watch. As far as I can tell everything I see about it says subway/metro (which I consider a sizable step above "RER"). What I think is incorrect is the notion that Ontario's RER 'has been debated for over a decade'. There were earlier promises for AD2W, and for eventual electrification. But the actual promise of RER (electrified, AD2W, new stations) only goes back a few years as a 2014 election promise. This after Metrolinx rejected many of the ideas they're now promoting in RER. So really it's only four years old.

But yes, compared with Montreal's plan which came out two years later, it's really phenomenal how fast they're moving and how many questions are answered.

 

[rbt]

What I think is incorrect is the notion that Ontario's RER 'has been debated for over a decade'. There were earlier promises for AD2W, and for eventual electrification. But the actual promise of RER (electrified, AD2W, new stations) only goes back a few years as a 2014 election promise. This after Metrolinx rejected many of the ideas they're now promoting in RER. So really it's only four years old.

For the general public it's only four years old. Internally, it kinda existed before Metrolinx absorbed GO Transit; back when Metrolinx proposed impractical expansions with virtually unknown prices before GO staff knocked the wind out of their sails and everyone discovered achieving actual service was harder than it looked. Anyway, the original big version of the ~2040 Big Move (the $75B+ version) effectively included RER on all current GO lines plus a few; albeit without the express trips for the outer portions.

What Wynne brought forward in 2014 as a RER plan was an achievable bite-size version of that with possibilities of additional phases (like Milton).

What was completely new, IIRC, is the Niagara Falls segment. I don't recall that appearing on any maps during McGuinty.

 

[ShonTron]

Amazing. Montreal introduced the idea of REM less than 2 years ago and will open years before RER, be completely grade separated, have a downtown tunnel, and they have already decided on the vehicles and hence platforms. Meanwhile in Toronto, RER has been debated for over a decade, billions have been spent but they have yet to electrify one foot, they haven`t even figured out what vehicles they are going to use, technology, or even platform levels but dear God Toronto is now home to some of the nicest parking garages to be found anywhere.

The one thing I will say in defense is that so much of the enabling works have been done or are underway to make RER possible. More platforms at Union Station and a station that will be much more capable of handling the crowds (a shame about the narrow platforms, though). Only one level crossing left on the Weston Sub (opposed to nine, plus a busy rail diamond), double-tracking underway of the Stouffville Line, a second major rail storage and maintenance centre, rail expansion on the Halton Sub to support improved service to Brampton (though CN remains in the way). Additional track capacity on the Lakeshore Line. Grade separations in Vaughan and Markham.

All these works makes it a lot easier to implement the next steps for RER. It wasn't all talk.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Metrolinx is a microcosm of 15 years of Liberal rule. Good ideas, implemented poorly that will probably be blown up by Ford.

You will still need to replace it with something. Blowing up orgs is the easiest and most visible to do in the name of "change" - delivering actual change for the better would be a lot harder. So what are they going to to - re-centralize it within OPS under what? Good luck with that.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

All these works makes it a lot easier to implement the next steps for RER. It wasn't all talk.

Very true, and good balance.

The vision which originated in the McGuinty era through the Big Move is sound, and there was definitely forward motion under his tenure.

I fault Wynne for carrying the plan forward in such a disjointed, politics-over-sound-judgement, money-grows-on-trees fashion.... but she did pick it up and run with it. That’s better than not doing it at all. There was a layer of lavish insincere “some day” promises and premature celebration of success that was egregious, but beneath that, lots of stuff got done.

I think we have the right to set the bar high for our expectations: ie solid planning, disciplined prioritisation, candour and transparency, and sound execution all should be delivered. As yet Ford Nation hasn’t nailed even one of those.

- Paul

 

[narduch]

You will still need to replace it with something. Blowing up orgs is the easiest and most visible to do in the name of "change" - delivering actual change for the better would be a lot harder. So what are they going to to - re-centralize it within OPS under what? Good luck with that.

AoD

Roll it into the Ministry of Transportation?

Ford is a disrupter, he won't care if the transition isn't smooth.

 

[Filip]

The one thing I will say in defense is that so much of the enabling works have been done or are underway to make RER possible. More platforms at Union Station and a station that will be much more capable of handling the crowds (a shame about the narrow platforms, though). Only one level crossing left on the Weston Sub (opposed to nine, plus a busy rail diamond), double-tracking underway of the Stouffville Line, a second major rail storage and maintenance centre, rail expansion on the Halton Sub to support improved service to Brampton (though CN remains in the way). Additional track capacity on the Lakeshore Line. Grade separations in Vaughan and Markham.

All these works makes it a lot easier to implement the next steps for RER. It wasn't all talk.

Ha! I do agree with most of what you've written, but this does make me laugh. 'A shame about the narrow platforms, though' is equivalent to saying: 'well that's a beautiful building, too bad we didn't build any foundations'. RER and its associated ridership cannot be handled by Union, today, tomorrow, or 10 years from now. The narrow and low platforms directly impact the ability to run that many trains through there.

Metrolinx planners have off the record said RER as envisioned cannot happen with Union (before or after revitalization). This is one of the reasons why there has been so much foot dragging with RER even though it's the most sensible transit planning idea any government has had in the last 50 years.
Metrolinx/government of Ontario (past Liberal now PC) need to figure out the messaging when they go back to the general public to say: 'well we are committed to electrified, rapid, frequent trains on the GO corridors, but we'll need to rebuild Union once again - we need $4 billion because none of us thought about the station while drafting grand plans'.

And that, is the sad truth.

EDIT: and that, is why I want to see Metrolinx dynamited. This is an abject failure in planning - one with milestone and multi-billion dollar consequences

 

[hw621]

RER and its associated ridership cannot be handled by Union, today, tomorrow, or 10 years from now.

Is this really true? That would have been shocking news to me! Verster's interview at UT seems to suggest that Union is being revitalized for RER, no?!

 

[Filip]

Is this really true? That would have been shocking news to me! Verster's interview at UT seems to suggest that Union is being revitalized for RER, no?!

That's why it's not being socialized publicly - Metrolinx would be a target for public ire and Ford would dynamite it. All deserved IMO.

Union - as currently designed (after revitalization) cannot handle the anticipated RER trains/ridership. It takes too long to board and disembark a train, causes extreme crowding and dangerous conditions at track level - thereby slowing down service and capacity. Great for commuter trains, horrifying for frequent train service - this is symptomatic of the low and narrow platforms.

Solution? Widen and raise the platforms - by eliminating certain tracks and with some reconfiguration, this is pretty doable. Problem? You just spent billions rebuilding the station, and support columns holding up the tracks are now 'set in stone'. That's also the 'secret' reason why the lower retail level is still unopened. They're trying to figure out if they can gerryrig some engineering solution to this. All in all - hot mess. All in all - caused by a lack of grand planning. Oh yes, that train shed is also a problem.. The old and the new one.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Dynamiting Metrolinx just validates using the agencies as scapegoat - there reason why Union Station is the way it isn't because Mlinx is footdragging - it is the province that is hot and cold about funding RER and this particular project.

AoD

 

[aquateam]

That's why it's not being socialized publicly - Metrolinx would be a target for public ire and Ford would dynamite it. All deserved IMO.

Union - as currently designed (after revitalization) cannot handle the anticipated RER trains/ridership. It takes too long to board and disembark a train, causes extreme crowding and dangerous conditions at track level - thereby slowing down service and capacity. Great for commuter trains, horrifying for frequent train service - this is symptomatic of the low and narrow platforms.

Solution? Widen and raise the platforms - by eliminating certain tracks and with some reconfiguration, this is pretty doable. Problem? You just spent billions rebuilding the station, and support columns holding up the tracks are now 'set in stone'. That's also the 'secret' reason why the lower retail level is still unopened. They're trying to figure out if they can gerryrig some engineering solution to this. All in all - hot mess. All in all - caused by a lack of grand planning. Oh yes, that train shed is also a problem.. The old and the new one.

Could you share some more background about this? I was under the impression that Metrolinx was going through the exercise of through-routing and track consolidation to widen platforms, and this is the first that I've heard about the new columns being a constraint.