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Mayor John Tory's Toronto

In Ontario, a cop never assumes a general public member carries a gun

In the USA they assume you reach for your belt, you ready to light up the place.

That fundamental difference I think is why its different in Canada a lot too.
 
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In Ontario, a cop never assumes a general public member carries a gun

In the USA they assume you reach for your belt, you ready to light up the place.

That fundamental difference I think is why its different in Canada a lot too.
We simply don't have an equivalent to the Second Amendment.
 
“A police force the shoots fewer people in total” isn’t the same as “a less racist police force”. And the racism is the point.

Let's compare Ontario Police Services Act vs the Chicago's "Rules and Regulations of the Chicago Police Department". Chicago—and most cities—govern their police directly, per state constitution dictum (or by default-lack thereof). Illinois has only one mention of "police" in their constitution, and that's in regards to the right to bear arms.

OPSA: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p15
R&RCPD: http://directives.chicagopolice.org...bf0-12d7c186-a4912-d7c1-8b12822c2ca106c4.html

  • In Ontario, simply unholstering a weapon by a police officer requires the filling out of a “Use of Force Report”. There's no requirement in Chicago.
  • In Ontario, police are also limited to only two justifications for unholstering that weapon in the first place: to prevent loss of life or serious bodily harm or to destroy a dangerous animal. No such limitations exist on the CPD, making things like warning shots or shooting at escaping vehicles justified in situations.
  • In Ontario, failure to report the unholstering of that weapon can lead to suspension. No such penalty exists in the CPD.
  • In Ontario, if that weapon is discharged—regardless of outcome—the chief or commissioner immediately launches an investigation. In Chicago, if a discharge occurs and no one is hit, an oral report is given to a desk sergeant to be later followed by a written report. No mandatory investigation is launched.
All of the above increases accountability on the part of the officer, and no doubt keeps fewer people from being shot. But it doesn't make them or the system less racist.

So, it's little solace to anyone of colour that they're still more likely to be killed by police than a white person in the same situation. This is a problem that has existed for decades, despite numerous attempts at reform. Protests (and riots if need be) are more than justified, IMO. We may not have the depth of problem they have, but the breadth is the same, and no level of moral superiority on the part of Canadians over the US changes that. We don't have "different" cops, they just have more eyes on them.

Its funny, not in a ha ha way................

I agree with the entirety of what you just posted.

But I think you under-weight the importance of the things you posted.

Conceding without reservation that racism plays a role in how our police function; and that any is too much......

To the extent that we do less damage to racialized communities in this country, and in this city, that is a good thing, unreservedly.

It also suggests a greater consciousness by the community, those who govern and police to behave better than their U.S. counterparts.

No, that is nowhere near good enough.

I would never and do not accept the status quo.

I simply state, if you want to advance reform, start with the truth, which is damning enough; then concede work by those who fail too often to improve.

It makes them more amenable to your arguments.

I would also add; a meaningful portion of the failings of our police are tied to two specifics as distinct from 'race'.

One is mental health calls.

Another is interactions due to severe poverty/income inequality and the related classicism.

Which is not to suggest race and racism aren't also factors, as surely they are in too many cases.

But you simply stated the risk was greater to minorities in Toronto than in U.S. counterpart cities.

It clearly is not.

Further, your stating of gun regulations would explain away the difference in shootings.

But not the difference in charge rates relative to population, which are also lower here.

So let's review:

In the U.S. 34% of those in the correctional system are Black.. That compares with 12% of the US population. So 2.8x the proportionate rate of incarceration.

In Canada, 7.3% of the prison population is Black. Which compares with 3% of the population, so 2.3x.

Listen, that's not a great stat, but it disproves things are worse in Canada.

That's the entire point; its bad enough that no exaggeration is required.

You exaggerated.

I'm on your side, and I'm asking you not to damage the argument by overstatement.

None is required.
 
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the fact that crazed SJW Twitter types focus on equating Canada or the USA or saying we are worse is a disservice to their cause.

The focus is on how to make things better in general.
 
In Canada, 7.3% of the prison population is Black. Which compares with 3% of the population, so 2.3x.

Listen, that's not a great stat, but it disproves things are worse in Canada.
I never said that Canada was worse than the US.
zang said:
So you're right, it's not the same as the U.S. Our city is worse than the U.S. average.
And that was in regards to the OHRC's findings on deaths at the hands of the police in the city of Toronto. Our city's metric is undeniably worse than the U.S. average.

We Canadians love to tilt our noses up at the racism in the U.S. act as though we're invulnerable to it because we're a diverse country. But this only serves to ignore the realities of our own problem.

I grew up in a small town. Racism was the norm there, not the anomaly. My high school had 1100 students, and only a handful were POC.

Of my group of about eight friends from that school, two of them went on to try and become police officers. One was conservative, but progressive back then. He was a just man, and would often stand up for people. He's now a detective in Etobicoke, and I reached out to him a couple of years back to see what he was up to. He had become so jaded that a boy who stood up for others regardless of who or what they were, was now a man disparaging ethnic communities and using words like "they" and "them" in blanket regards to POC. I had no desire to rekindle that friendship after that.

The other friend was always a racist. He called Brampton "Bramladesh" and thought it was funny to hang his head out the window and mock a ululation cheer as we drove through it. I and another two friends would get angry at him when he'd do that, but we had hope he'd change. He flunked out of Police Foundations in College, but that didn't stop his ambitions of lording power over minorities as he's now a prison guard in Milton. Before I chose to no longer be friends with him, his racism had amplified to a point I felt there was no longer hope of salvaging any compassion in him.

My aunt is a classic anti-immigrant conservative racist who claims "white privilege doesn't exist". My uncle is a hardcore racist through and through, and I'm quite certain was a KKK member in his youth. His son (my cousin) had an SS tattoo on his arm by the time he was 16 and told me to call the one black student in my 3-grade class the n-word.

While I am not a POC, I have seen first hand how bad we are here, and how we have no right to any kind of moral superiority over our neighbours to the south. And when my POC Canadian friends and neighbours tell me how much racism they experience on a day to day basis, I choose to believe them.
 
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I never said that Canada was worse than the US.
And that was in regards to the OHRC's findings on deaths at the hands of the police in the city of Toronto. Our city's metric is undeniably worse than the U.S. average.

Again, Apples to Apples though.

The same OHRC report you cite, I've read, and re-read before responding.

Here's what it said when it compared Toronto to Chicago:

However, while Black civilians in Toronto are five times more likely to be shot by the police than White civilians, Black Chicago residents are 24 times more likely to be shot by the police than their White counterparts. Furthermore, the Chicago shooting rate for Black civilians (43.1 per million) is four times greater than the Toronto rate (9.6 per million).

Do note from the same report that a whopping 40% of US police forces do not report their numbers at all; which makes the data somewhat problematic.

****

As to the rest of your response.

I don't doubt your anecdotes and have already offered without reservation that racism is a material concern in Canada in general and in policing, in particular.

My only take is that its important not to exaggerate because the facts are sufficiently concerning without embellishment.

That fair comparisons need to be made.

Yes, Canadians can be smug by comparing ourselves to poor performers in certain fields; most often the U.S. when it comes to providing health insurance or mitigating poverty.

No, we are not well served by making only one comparison, or only one to a laggard.

We should always aim to be the best and as such should compare ourselves to the highest achievers around the world in any field.

Smug self-satisfaction is never a good character trait.

But neither is failing to admit improvement; nor performing better than some peers.

***

There are lots of constructive actions we need to make locally and nationally in this country.

So lets compare our police shootings with the UK or Australia and note that they ought to be reduceable nationally by at least 75%.

That will surely have something to do with gun control; along with changing responses to mental health calls, and reducing the number of officers w/guns holstered to their person.

Lets address charge rates by tackling un-warranted traffic stops, and eliminating criminal charges for simple possession of drugs; and by tackling recognizance conditions which can often
be needlessly onerous.

Lets tackle issues around inequality in broader society as well, including, but not limited to, poverty and educational attainment.
 
It seems that higher education doesn't necessarily lead to making cogent arguments. This commentator in UofT's The Varsity advocates to abolish the police, except that the OPP should be brought into replace the TPS. In addition to its inconsistency, do they think the OPP has a few thousand extra members, in a drawer perhaps, to accomplish this?

 
It seems that higher education doesn't necessarily lead to making cogent arguments. This commentator in UofT's The Varsity advocates to abolish the police, except that the OPP should be brought into replace the TPS. In addition to its inconsistency, do they think the OPP has a few thousand extra members, in a drawer perhaps, to accomplish this?

The OPP can hire the former TPS officers. 😑
 
Toronto easing patio heater regulations

From link.

JFJ10282636_Super_Portrait.jpg


The city of Toronto says curbside bars and restaurants will be allowed to use portable heaters in an attempt to extend the outdoor dining season.

The change affects restaurants that took part in the city's CafeTO program, which allowed more than 700 venues to extend their patio spaces into sidewalks and curb lanes.

Mayor John Tory says the restaurant industry had been asking for the change to maximize their capacity as the weather gets colder during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The city says the use of heaters could extend patio season into November and will encourage physical distancing.

It says space heaters will have to follow safety standards, and will have to be removed when restaurants close down.

The CafeTO program has been running since July and the city is seeking feedback from businesses about decisions around its future.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published

By The Canadian Press

How about windbreaks?

sal15.png

From link.


Reduce the speed limits on streets that have patios occupying part of the traffic lanes (or for pedestrian walkways) down to 30 km/h.

Some European cities where they "share" the road have the speed limit set at 20 km/h.
 
The city really should put some concrete blocks where all these CafeTO patios are. They're completely unprotected from drivers along their sides.
 
They usually have concrete blocks before the patio to deflect inattentive motorists from plowing through them.
 
They usually have concrete blocks before the patio to deflect inattentive motorists from plowing through them.

I know, but those are just at the front - the long sides of these patios are completely unprotected, which makes me very reluctant to use them considering how stupid and selfish many Toronto drivers are.
 
WARNING: Rant Follows:

So there was a piece done for Spacing recently that looked at the Regent Park Social Development Plan; and the failure of lift-off on most of its non-physical components (programs as opposed to facilities).

That piece is here: http://spacing.ca/toronto/2020/09/18/coming-clean-on-regents-park-social-development-plan/

Within said piece, they linked to the actual plan; which I'm sure I read way back when.......but that was more than a decade ago, so I clicked through and re-read it.

That induced something of a Twitter rant from me..............because while I believe governments of all stripes ought to be held to account to honour their commitments; and I certainly support
providing programs and services that will foster opportunities for low-income residents of Regent Park..........

That Plan was absolute garbage.

An abject lesson in how to write a plan that will be ignored and achieve next to nothing even if it isn't.

Here's the plan: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-8820.pdf

First sin................a whopping 75 recommendations.

The lesson of Royal Commissions, Judicial Inquiries and Coroner's Inquests past................Do not write so long a wish list that people will fall asleep reading it, and even you won't remember what you wrote!

That is a surefire way to get more of your recommendations ignored; and it also invariably means you have lots of superfluous flotsam in there; and those will end up being the ones with check marks beside them, not the substantive ones!

But its not just numbers...............its recommendations with wording so amorphous, so nebulous and non-specific that there's virtually nothing actionable in them; and in any event no clear measure of success or failure.

Lets look at Recommendation #74

Stakeholders will work together wherever possible to develop effective, efficient, broad-reaching communication strategies toensure that residents have access to up-to-date information. RPNI will work to arrange regular update meetings for residents as necessary in order to create consistent opportunities for residents to obtain accurate information about ongoing developments and emerging issue

You must be kidding me.

Aside from the fact I would hope keeping the relevant parties informed would be normal course of business..............if it were not..........the answer is not the above statement.
Instead, if you're worried about secrecy, you say:

-All Stakeholder meetings will be open to the public with agendas posted online and in every TCHC building lobby and laundry room 7 days or more prior to the meeting date.
-The scheduled date and location of meetings shall be public one year in advance with notifications of any change to the schedule not less than 14 days before such change takes effect.
-The minutes of all meetings will be published within 30 days of the said meeting being held.
-An update letter/email will be published each month and shall included any action items or updates provided to stakeholders at their most recent meeting and information related to any known items for the subsequent meeting's agenda.
-Such correspondence will be sent by email to everyone who requests this and provides an email address, to anyone by mail who provides a mailing address, and public copies shall be posted in all building lobbies and laundry rooms.

There. Now there's a clear, unambiguous understanding.

***

To be clear, I think this recommendation shouldn't be there at all, either in its original form or with my suggested changes.

Because it allows a box to be checked for putting out an email the content of which will always be somewhat subjective and which either way wont' really improve anyone's life.

I think a Plan like this should be clearly focused on jobs, education, childcare, social supports etc.

It needs succinct, well articulated goals that cannot be fudged.

ie.

The developer SHALL provided no fewer than 50 skilled trade apprenticeships to existing residents of Regent Park. The opportunity will be be marketed to residents by ...... etc.

The City of Toronto shall provide 'x' number of childcare spaces of which no less than ' y' shall be subsidized. The clear expectation on the City is that no residents of Regent Park who qualify for subsidized childcare shall wait longer than 'x' for a space.

Parks and Recreation will start an aquatics program with the specific goal of training young, low-income residents of Regent Park to be lifeguards and camp councillors.

All training and skills-building programs shall be provided to residents for free; with a goal of 'x' number of councillors and lifeguards to be trained over 10 years, and in any event by Jan 1st 2021 every life guard and camp councillor employed in Regent Park by PF&R shall be or have been a resident of Regent Park in the preceding 10 years.

That's how its done.

Maximum number of asks is 10.

So everyone remembers what they asked for and what was asked of them without looking it up!

So yes, the City should invest in low income residents...........

But please FFS don't let any jargon-speak bureaucrats or activists have control of the plans......

If you plan for nothing.............you get what you planned for, 100% of the time.

/Rant End!





'
 
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City clerk is recommending to Council via the Executive Ctte meeting tomorrow that ranked ballots not be pursued for the 2022 election.


I must confess, as a proponent of ranked ballots (I think its absurd that some councillors get voted in w/less than 30% of the vote) that I don't think this reform need be delayed.

I don't think its particularly complex to carry off; its been done elsewhere, successfully.

 

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