Mayor John Tory's Toronto

[Northern Light]

The mother seems to forget she is the one who called the police and wanted them to take her daughter to the hospital, which the police can not do.

Are you on the wrong side of everything?

First off............if one calls police, because someone they care about is acting irrationally or out of control that does not the mean they call the police to ensure that person dies.

They're looking for safety and containment.

I'm not going to lay blame in this case when I wasn't there and don't have the full facts at my disposal, except to say that was not and should be the expected outcome.

Whether a mental health nurse being present would have led to a better outcome is not knowable since that wasn't done.

Which is a damned fine reason it should be on a go-forward basis.

****

AS to the next bit............you simply have either lied or have no idea what you're talking about, neither is acceptable.

Police brings person to physician
When a person is acting in a disorderly manner, the Act allows the police to take someone already in custody to a designated psychiatric facility for examination by a physician if they believe that the person is an immediate danger to themself, an immediate danger to others, or not able to care for himself or herself to an extent that physical impairment will result. The officer must believe, implicitly, that the immediate nature of the threat precludes the use of section 16 (Bringing Information before a Justice of the peace).[1]

If one goes on.........a physician may order a 72-hour hold.

Read up on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Act_(Ontario)#Police_brings_person_to_physician

It's more than fine not to know everything.

None of us do............not even close.

But if you don't know what you're talking about; don't pretend you do.

 

[Rufus8]

"the wrong side" - you mean disagreeing with you? So by your definition your side is the "right side"? You do know that diversity isn't just about ethinicity don't you? To be intolerant is not something you ought to be boasting about.

 

[zang]

"the wrong side" - you mean disagreeing with you? So by your definition your side is the "right side"? You do know that diversity isn't just about ethinicity don't you? To be intolerant is not something you ought to be boasting about.

Indulging the idea that there are no wrong sides of any argument is dangerous, and a major problem in media today. Diversity of opinion is not the same, nor even close to, diversity of race, religion, gender, etc. Opinion holders are not a protected class, and both sides of any story do not always hold equal weight.
Blaming a mother who lost her child because police aren’t properly equipped or trained to deal with mental health crises is just down right callous.
Our emergency response system (911) in this country determines who gets sent when a call comes in. More often than not, it sends police to mental health calls and welfare checks. And police departments have spent the last couple of decades training their employees to be “warriors”, to respond with force over compassion, and hiring those aching to fit that mould (usually men with a chip on their shoulder and a desire to feel powerful). They are the last group who should be tasked with responding to people in the middle of a mental health crisis.

I’m really feeling like you’re here intentionally being thoughtless, ignorant and discompassionate simply to try and turn it around and play the victim.

So yeah, “it’s the mothers fault her child is dead.” doesn’t deserve to be on any side of a debate. It’s not “diversity of opinion”, and you know it — It’s a performative act of “lib-baiting”.

 

[Jasmine18]

Indulging the idea that there are no wrong sides of any argument is dangerous, and a major problem in media today. Diversity of opinion is not the same, nor even close to, diversity of race, religion, gender, etc. Opinion holders are not a protected class, and both sides of any story do not always hold equal weight.
Blaming a mother who lost her child because police aren’t properly equipped or trained to deal with mental health crises is just down right callous.
Our emergency response system (911) in this country determines who gets sent when a call comes in. More often than not, it sends police to mental health calls and welfare checks. And police departments have spent the last couple of decades training their employees to be “warriors”, to respond with force over compassion, and hiring those aching to fit that mould (usually men with a chip on their shoulder and a desire to feel powerful). They are the last group who should be tasked with responding to people in the middle of a mental health crisis.

I’m really feeling like you’re here intentionally being thoughtless, ignorant and discompassionate simply to try and turn it around and play the victim.

So yeah, “it’s the mothers fault her child is dead.” doesn’t deserve to be on any side of a debate. It’s not “diversity of opinion”, and you know it — It’s a performative act of “lib-baiting”.

It's a tragic event in general.

However...

The mother and family did lie though to the media about the police pushed the person off. Which is a very serious claim that many people believed as 100% fact.

Based on the siu report there was nothing that would have led them to that conclusion and it seems was done on purpose to play to the media.


It is the sole reason why this rather clear cut case turned into such a divisive issue.

I agree we need reform around these kind of cases but the last thing we need is to import American style hyper divisiveness into Canada about this issue.

 

[Jonny5]

It's silly the TPS uses the "we're not trained for this" as a go to excuse when it's pretty clear they actually are trained for all situations, explicitly including "those not covered elsewhere in your training." They have a default plan they are trained on for any and all situations that are not in the manual, and that plan is to be aggressive and confrontational. That is what they are taught to do. It's their literal training and instruction and it supersedes any attempt at situational awareness by design. It's stupid and cowardly they deny this.

 

[Jonny5]

The mother and family did lie though to the media about the police pushed the person off. Which is a very serious claim that many people believed as 100% fact.

Based on the siu report there was nothing that would have led them to that conclusion and it seems was done on purpose to play to the media.

The mother was up front she was not present or a witness from the first moment. It was crystal clear it was only her belief from the first statement she made. You are attempting to re-write history. An SIU report months later proves the mother is a liar based on statements made moments after her daughters corpse was scraped off the ground? What a joke of a comment.

 

[picard102]

don't have the full facts at my disposal

You do though, the report is publicly available.

The mother was up front she was not present or a witness from the first moment. It was crystal clear it was only her belief from the first statement she made. You are attempting to re-write history. An SIU report months later proves the mother is a liar based on statements made moments after her daughters corpse was scraped off the ground? What a joke of a comment.

The mother's lawyer walked back her statement that the "police killed my daughter, came in my apartment, and shoved her off the balcony", but she was not upfront about any of the facts until she got a lawyer.

 

[Jasmine18]

The mother was up front she was not present or a witness from the first moment. It was crystal clear it was only her belief from the first statement she made. You are attempting to re-write history. An SIU report months later proves the mother is a liar based on statements made moments after her daughters corpse was scraped off the ground? What a joke of a comment.

So she then made a story that the police was racist and shoved her off for no reason.

Rather then" she died I want answers.."

That is like a plane crash happens and you just declare "the pilot was drunk and sleeping with the air hostess while the plane crashed " with no basis.


The family inflamed this whole situation on purpose.

 

[zang]

So she then made a story that the police was racist and shoved her off for no reason.

Because we know from experience black people have every reason to believe the Police's side of a story. Let's also not forget that when Regis entered back into the apartment to use the washroom, Police barred family from reentering. What's your assumption of what happened going to be? Her family claims despite mental health issues, she wasn't suicidal. Their family member is alive one minute, falling 24 storeys the next, all the while you're being held back from re-entering your own apartment by police. There were multiple police in the room adjacent the balcony she fell from, but no family. And again, she was (and you are) black—making it many, many times greater that she'd be killed or injured by police.

Sure, the family made the wrong assumption, but given the context, not an implausible nor even improbable one.

Oh, then someone in the police leaked pro-police information to the Sun while it was under SIU investigation. Because the blue fraternity doesn't need to wait for investigations to clear them, when right wing media will happily do some of the leg work for them.

 

[Jasmine18]

Because we know from experience black people have every reason to believe the Police's side of a story. Let's also not forget that when Regis entered back into the apartment to use the washroom, Police barred family from reentering. What's your assumption of what happened going to be? Her family claims despite mental health issues, she wasn't suicidal. Their family member is alive one minute, falling 24 storeys the next, all the while you're being held back from re-entering your own apartment by police. There were multiple police in the room adjacent the balcony she fell from, but no family. And again, she was (and you are) black.

Sure, the family made the wrong assumption, but given the context, not an implausible nor even improbable one.

Oh, then someone in the police leaked pro-police information to the Sun while it was under SIU investigation. Because the blue fraternity doesn't need to wait for investigations to clear them, when right wing media will happily do some of the leg work for them.

No that is an importing of American style approach to solving race issues which is an abject failure and I don't want.

As a minority I don't like people inflating racial tensions by lying.


Nothing about believing the police at all but everyone pushing such an absurd story as fact was just stupid and had a lot of negative effects on the city.

Even now people i know still think a bunch of white cops came in pushed her out the window cause they love killing black people.

You know how bad it is for people to think that is true?

We have problems in Canada but let's stop thinking its the same as America.

 

[zang]

No that is an importing of American style approach to solving race issues which is an abject failure and I don't want.

As a minority I don't like people inflating racial tensions by lying.


Nothing about believing the police at all but everyone pushing such an absurd story as fact was just stupid and had a lot of negative effects on the city.

Even now people i know still think a bunch of white cops came in pushed her out the window cause they love killing black people.

You know how bad it is for people to think that is true?

We have problems in Canada but let's stop thinking its the same as America.

In Toronto, blacks are 20x more likely to be killed by police than whites.
<10% of the population, but 61% of the police use-of-force, and 70% of police shootings resulting in death.

Black Toronto residents 20 times more likely to be shot dead by police, study says

Black people made up 61% of cases where police used force that resulted in death, Ontario human rights commission report said

www.theguardian.com

It may not be "the same as America", but it's still far too close for comfort.

 

[picard102]

Sure, the family made the wrong assumption, but given the context, not an implausible nor even improbable one.

It absolutely is.

 

[zang]

It absolutely is.

Black Toronto residents 20 times more likely to be shot dead by police, study says

"While black residents make up less than 10% of the city’s population, they accounted for 61% of all cases where police used force that resulted in death and 70% of police shootings that resulted in death."

 

[picard102]

How many of those were cops casually storming into apartments and throwing people off balconies?

 

[zang]

How many of those were cops casually storming into apartments and throwing people off balconies?

How many times are you going to minimize the death of a human being to suit your bias?

And for the record, it's not even the first time someone's "fallen" from a balcony in police custody:

Woman, 27, suffers serious head injuries after 11th-floor balcony plunge

A 27-year-old woman suffered serious head injuries after plunging from an 11th-floor balcony in the Don Mills and York Mills roads area Wednesday, Aug. 4. The woman landed on a ground-floor...

www.toronto.com