Mayor John Tory's Toronto

[pattycakes]

Maybe the report ranked the options and politicians felt it would be too confusing for voters.

More likely it contains detailed costing estimates that were either provided by third parties or could be used by third parties during a competitive bidding process.

I thought the same thing but the article stated that Council didn't receive it either. IMHO I think it would be more confusing for them than most people. ( Just thinking about poor old Mammo and Jimmy K.) Unlike the report that suddenly appeared and supported the Stubway, I suspect the numbers on this report aren't as positive and are more accurate and verifiable. If it backed up the previous claims we would have seen it on the day it was available.

“I’m disappointed and angry that not only do Torontonians not see the studies they pay for, (but) I as their elected representative haven’t even seen these studies. I don’t know if anything untoward happened there, but the fact that I don’t know is itself a problem,” said Councillor Gord Perks, who was shown the consultant’s work by the Star."

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Absolutely the best version of multiculturalism there is- though you lose some authenticity, it's incredibly useful in filtering out the less desirable old country elements (let's not deny that there aren't any) and helping unify the cultures through replacement shared traditions.

I would imagine that the majority of people in the country would really want just the music, food and festivals and discard everything else.

When you end up with parallel cultures that don't have enough commonalities to connect over, that's when you begin to see cultural clashes.

The weird thing of course is that emigre culture is often "frozen in time" - and bears little to the home culture which has moved on. We've all heard of (if not experienced) those stories. Traditions are superficial though - it's how people act in the context of living in Canada that matters.

AoD

 

[christiesplits]

Here's a spreadsheet from @MichaelPolyani on Twitter showing how councilors voted on the budget. Most of the Exec members voted in line with Tory. One of the biggest eye openers the last year has been the abysmal voting record of Mary Margaret McMahon, who I always assumed was a 'progressive' on council. She voted for shelter cuts and against additional funding for recreation programs DESPITE fighting to protect a school pool from closure within her ward.

https://twitter.com/MichaelPolanyi/status/832711642127364096

 

[steveintoronto]

The weird thing of course is that emigre culture is often "frozen in time" - and bears little to the home culture which has moved on.

I tread very carefully on this, but a community that epitomizes that is the Polish community, although other very Catholic, conservative and old stock Central European ethnicities display similar. Baltics (although some are Lutheran, a form of Catholicism, as is Church of England) and Czechs etc, who are pre-Soviet stock....majority dislike and keep distance from the the 'new' migrants and their 'socialist indoctrination'. Even Cdn-Germans are dividing themselves, as are Germans themselves, on the matter of the Eastern Germans ("Will they ever assimilate to the West? And in how many generations?")

Living before twice, and now again in the Roncey neighbourhood, I discuss this with the locals, and it goes so far that the *language* has actually changed too, as well as awareness of the ethnicities living adjacent and being multi-lingual, even if only to get by.

Oddly, in those originating nations....this is as much down to the Internet and the demise of television as much as less actual intermingling. Hard to fathom? Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and other Slavs from border areas were used to watching TV programs, and the kids especially cartoons in their neighbour's language, and that doesn't happen any more. We see it within our own language groups, kids with smartphones knowing far less about the world, let alone their immediate political socio situation, as they're preoccupied with ME. Does the term "selfie" offer any clues?

They have the world at their fingertips, and promptly ignore it. Most haven't even a concept of what the local news is, unless it comes via Facebook, which of course heralds the success of "fake news". (Although in all fairness, it's far from being a new creation, what's happened is that the platform for delivery is unfiltered)

Whatever, 'diversity' is nebulous. If people made an attempt to understand their neighbours, we'd all be better off. "Is there an app for that?..."

 

[steveintoronto]

One of the biggest eye openers the last year has been the abysmal voting record of Mary Margaret McMahon, who I always assumed was a 'progressive' on council. She voted for shelter cuts and against additional funding for recreation programs DESPITE fighting to protect a school pool from closure within her ward.

Just surfing on another topic (The Don Mills Curling Rink) and tripped across this buttress of exactly your point:

http://torontoist.com/2017/02/another-homeless-death-toronto-streets/

 

[Freedom]

In January, some 810 people seeking refugee status, including men, women and children, used a city shelter, according to statistics from Toronto's Shelter Support and Housing Administration (SSHA). That's an 80 per cent increase from January 2016.

Meanwhile, government-sponsored Yazidi refugees, as well as more Syrian refugees, are also arriving in the city. Caulford said that, for now, they're being put up in hotels.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/refugees-shelters-1.3995021

The government needs to take action to address the housing shortage in Toronto given that more and more people are entering the city.

 

[toaster29]

RE: User Fees.
I don't think they are a progressive/regressive or Left/Right issue.
I made the argument that road tolls are regressive/right because no matter what you make, you have to pay the same "tax". People who own property in Toronto are wealthy, maybe not in their bank accounts, but they are sitting on million + in property. They can afford to pay a little more. Owning a car does not make you wealthy. You can buy cars for under a thousand dollars.

 

[salsa]

"Logic says an express Scarborough subway makes sense," said Tory.

Logic.

 

[DSC]

"Logic says an express Scarborough subway makes sense," said Tory.

Logic.

Indeed! Must be the alternative truth thing....

 

[pman]

Logic...lemme see...

Tory wants to be re-elected.
Folks in Scarborough are convinced of their God-given right to a subway station at STC whatever the cost and the economics, and are prepared to collectively punish any mayoral candidate who isn't on board.
Ergo, SSE must go ahead.

QED.

 

[salsa]

Indeed! Must be the alternative truth thing....

Alternative logic. It seems to be a consistent Tory thing that when presented with better alternatives, always pick the one that costs the most money and goes against objective evidence. The Gardiner Hybrid is another great example.

 

[pattycakes]

Logic...lemme see...

Tory wants to be re-elected.
Folks in Scarborough are convinced of their God-given right to a subway station at STC whatever the cost and the economics, and are prepared to collectively punish any mayoral candidate who isn't on board.
Ergo, SSE must go ahead.

QED.

I don't think that most of the folks in Scarborough are convinced they need a subway. Most of us just want decent transit for the best price, but Rob stopped that as soon as he was elected. Now Glenn D. is convinced we DESERVE a subway. He wouldn't care if it cost a trillion dollars and only had 2 riders. Unfortunately, for re-election purposes Tory has been convinced as well. I often wonder how high the price has to go before Tory bails on the stubway.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't think that most of the folks in Scarborough are convinced they need a subway. Most of us just want decent transit for the best price, but Rob stopped that as soon as he was elected. Now Glenn D. is convinced we DESERVE a subway. He wouldn't care if it cost a trillion dollars and only had 2 riders. Unfortunately, for re-election purposes Tory has been convinced as well. I often wonder how high the price has to go before Tory bails on the stubway.

I doubt Tory thinks that the SSE is the best solution, but agree that politically he thinks its the only solution - and he is likely right.

He could try to hold the province hostage and state that the Province would have to come to the table with more money for the SSE - and likely several parties would as part of an election promise (maybe even adding money for the missing station at Lawrence or the extension to Sheppard**). He could threaten to go back to the LRT option without this money. But the provincial election is in June, so it the promise of money doesn't come, be would have to revert back to supporting the SSE for his own election 4 months later.

Scarborough (STC) needs a transfer free connection to Yonge. There were several ways of achieving this, but sadly we went with perhaps the worst. And now, politically, trying to bring forward one of the better plans would not be acceptable as it would be (rightly) seen as re-doing the planning without accomplishing anything.

** - Maybe even extend to the CPR rail yard for a subway yard - in conjunction with a DRL plan.

 

[salsa]

I don't think that most of the folks in Scarborough are convinced they need a subway. Most of us just want decent transit for the best price, but Rob stopped that as soon as he was elected. Now Glenn D. is convinced we DESERVE a subway. He wouldn't care if it cost a trillion dollars and only had 2 riders. Unfortunately, for re-election purposes Tory has been convinced as well. I often wonder how high the price has to go before Tory bails on the stubway.

I'm amazed to what extent Tory has went out of his way to be a subway champion. His support is far beyond merely just doing to "get on with building transit". He is so aggressively full of crap on the SSE, to the point that any moment now he will stoop to Trump's level and accuse critics as being enemies of the people. But hey, if he wants this to be his legacy project, then so be it. Let this farce follow him around for the rest of his political career. Whatever happens, he can wear this.

 

[Northern Light]

I'm not a huge fan of the SSE, and not at all of what's left of it (one stop)......... BUT

I am a bit tired of tropes around low-usage; not only does modelling show high-usage at an STC station, but in comparing it with 'last mile' numbers
for other line segments in Toronto, as well as other systems globally the numbers are quite passable.

The problem here is not overly low usage; nor is it runaway costs.

Its a failure to carefully consider the options; marshall the correct arguments for things; and explain costings properly.

For instance, the latest cost increase was for a possible underground bus terminal at STC at a cost of $150m. This isn't needed; it might be idea from a good
urban planning perspective, I would necessarily oppose it, but its somewhat unfair to add that to the base cost of the subway.

I also noted in the reports that the cost of the line includes inline storage of trains. I did not see how many they are contemplating, but adding extra tail track
and/or pocket tracks is again a material cost add-on.

The arguments against this proposal aren't all unfair; there may well be better choices.

Further, the absurdity of removing a station at Lawrence with a huge trip generator in the form of Scarborough General Hospital right there, is simply asinine.

If anything, IF one chose to build this line, I would have argued strongly for adding a station on Danforth just north of Eglinton to serve the cluster of hi-rises and allow
for removal of bus service on Eglinton to Lawrence section of the route as a cost-saver.