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MacLean's: How Canada stole the American Dream

Uh, nobody is being PC here, so please put aside the sensitivities. Skin colour is not central with respect to the ideological and economic forces that drive (or have driven) wealth creation. The exception, of course, was slavery.

You're sensitivies are 'okay' though I suppose... and yet again, insisting on reducing AB's point to skin colour when what he was commenting on is far more to do with cultural and social issues.

Southwestern Ontario is not the world.

Um, did I say it was? I was commenting on Ontario. Thank goodness you're not 'sensitive' or anything.

In an effort to allay any hurt Scottish feelings that might have been derived from my comments, I am not saying that Scots as a cultural group had no impact, but they are certainly not responsible for building much of the world's infrastructure as indicated in the post that I commented on. The original statement said that "the Scots built much of the world's infrastructure and tech." That is simply not the case.

Methinks he doth protest too much.:rolleyes:

The idea Britain bequeathed a strong work ethic to the US is pretty ridiculous too considering it was built on the back of slaves.

How so?
 
In reality, Canada is just a brand name. Its actual people, living conditions and separation of the classes are no different than in America.

Like Hipster Duck, I've experienced it all--from the downtown eastside of Vancouver living on $10/day to working in factories where poor uneducated people are kicked around like dirt for $55/day to hanging out with the cultural elite in Forest Hill who think giving a waitress a 10% tip is "being nice" while screaming at their cleaner and nanny "you stupid dumb b****" to hanging out at a Liberal Party convention (where the rich, mostly white, spoilt brats sneer at anyone who actually has to "work" for a living) to working with Amish farmers who avoid the "English" folk--Canada is filled with bigots and hypocrites, assholes and some decent people.

Having a Southern background myself, I'd say overall, Southerners are much friendlier people than 90% of Canadians.

Sounds like you've taken some of the worst Canadian examples out of context, because I got to know Vancouver quite well last fall and visited the city on 4 separate occasions. The downtown east side is one of the most horrible conditions in all of Canada, but I also look at the other side of the token. The downtown east side was also smaller and less pervasive than poverty in any number of American cities. Even Portland, where I was living at the time, had a larger number of poverty stricken neighborhoods east of the downtown, yet Portland is considered one of the wealthier, best off American cities. Forget comparing a city like Buffalo or New Orleans or Chicago's outer communities of poverty.

I guess when Chicago's south side is larger than all of metro Vancouver, yet virtually everyone lives in absolutely wretched conditions the Vancouver east side or going through Queensway west of Toronto doesn't phase me...

You're right, there's still lots of work to do.

I also realize there are plenty of good places here in the US. A matter of fact, if this last attempt at immigration to Canada fails this time, I'm going to take my savings and start looking for work in the SF bay area or something. I'm going to be going through a certification program this fall to brush up on my database and SQL skills, and by next spring if Canada is increasingly ignoring my application I'll eventually have to make the best of what I've got.

Its still not what I want though, even if SF is a great area its not where I've always wanted to be.
 
Most of America was not built on the backs of slaves. They were mostly working on farms.

America (and Canada) was built by visionaries, dreamers, entrepreneurs, business men and women. Obviously, there are those along for the ride, those labourers and working poor who were mere "slaves" to the rich owners of business.

Brandon, ever heard of First Nations people? There is far worse absolute poverty in Canada than in America; it is Canada's "social programs" that disguise the extent of the exploitation of the poor. The poorest people are not those on welfare, but those working p2p on $10/hour or less.
 
Most of America was not built on the backs of slaves. They were mostly working on farms.

America (and Canada) was built by visionaries, dreamers, entrepreneurs, business men and women. Obviously, there are those along for the ride, those labourers and working poor who were mere "slaves" to the rich owners of business.

Brandon, ever heard of First Nations people? There is far worse absolute poverty in Canada than in America; it is Canada's "social programs" that disguise the extent of the exploitation of the poor. The poorest people are not those on welfare, but those working p2p on $10/hour or less.

I'm 100% aware of the First Nations people and their situation, but that doesn't represent the generality of whats going on in Canada. Head over to statscan.ca and compare it to census.gov data. Or better yet, travel the lands. Visit the communities. Canada has seriously less poverty in real, tangible, measurable ways. Its not as easy as looking at statistics on paper.

But its still far from perfect, yes.
 
I've lived in 5 of Canada's provinces, lived in all the major cities, in small towns and out in the rural areas.

Here's what you need to do: go to a temp agency, get a job in factory for a few months. $8/hour. Then compare that experience to America's poor.

On a per capita basis, Canada lags the USA.
 
I've lived in 5 of Canada's provinces, lived in all the major cities, in small towns and out in the rural areas.

Here's what you need to do: go to a temp agency, get a job in factory for a few months. $8/hour. Then compare that experience to America's poor.

On a per capita basis, Canada lags the USA.

Sounds to me like you don't know the US well enough. LOL
 
In all honesty there are a million things I could nit pick at Canada on.

*The lack of federal funding for transit and transportation initatives nationwide leaving everything to the provinces and cities, yet that same government wants to take funds and shovel it off to have-not provinces. The pot should be available for everyone, and even though states like California get shortchanged compared with states like Mississippi, CA still gets all kinds of federal funding for things like the LA subway or highway construction that Ontario will NEVER see.

*Canada's apparent lack of environmental control over the Alberta tar sands and the total lack of ability of the federal government to come in and regulate the oil industry in Alberta. The National Energy Policy didn't seem that anti-west to me, especially when it subsidized and fostered Petro Canada and promoted Canadian industry growth and strength. Today NAFTA has sworn away Canada's sovereign rights to its own oil when Canada could technically be riding on easy street and have cheaper oil costs than the international markets are creating. Canada has the largest oil reserves in the world nowadays, yet in North America it has the highest energy costs. What is fair about that? The international markets are screwing Canada because of the federal government's lack of ability, and Alberta's rejection of regulation.

*In relation to the above, I worry about the fact that so much of Canada's economy is tied to natural resources and the selling of raw materials like oil, minerals, and metals in the ground that are mined out. What happens if oil busts worldwide and alternative energy actually begins to take hold? Canada will be in a serious recession. Forget the silly lumber dispute that went on forever and is still going on at many levels.

*The fact they love to continually cut funding for what is one of the world's most advanced medical systems, creating the appearance that there is some crisis so the government must allow all kinds of US-style care to absorb into the Canadian way of life.

*Creating some serious student loan forgiveness programs that allow for students to close out some hefty education fees in return for national service to help communities across Canada. Again, seems like another lost opportunity the federal government could become a part of. The US is no example as Bush has basically cut the Americorp and other programs down to almost nothing, but the point is that Canada shouldn't follow the US, it should make its own way.

And this is just a start to the many topics I could nitpick on Canada with.

At the end of the discussion Canada is still on good ground as there is never a perfect.

I mean Germany may sound interesting on the surface, but after leading the world through a wretched war over race and the hugely sagging economy in the East still today, its certainly not a beacon of hope for many aside from the fact that its cities enjoy Euro-style and history unsurpassed by nothing in Canada.

Denmark sounds nice, until you realize the Lutheran church is still their established government religion.

Every nation has problems. Its the context of the problems I focus on, and the US has PLENTY.
 
America (and Canada) was built by visionaries, dreamers, entrepreneurs, business men and women

I don't see how that sentence negates the idea of America being built on the backs of slaves.

In turn, I recommend a study in the history of science and technology - for a more global and less selective view.

Or "Lost Discoveries" by Dick Teresi, which actually started as a project to discredit the idea of global science history, but he found so much evidence for it that he changed his mind while writing it. Contains detailed info on science from Arabia, India, China, etc.... [/offtopic]

Once again I see the mandatory anti-"PC" backlash has come about.....I seem to notice a pattern from immigrant Canadian Admiral B in being very active, seemingly, in emphasizing the division between himself & others racially and 'historically' more than any native Canadian I've known.
 
Imo, a "real" Canadian would never display the Canadian flag prominently. That's just the Canadian way.;)

Canadian backpackers and student visitors in Europe in the late 1970's and 1980's. Canadian flags everywhere - little Canadian flags.
 
The majority of the United States' economic power was always in the North, which never used slavery. You could argue that the South was built on slavery, but certainly not the United States as a whole.
 
The latest from James Kunstler:

Every time I saw a car towing a motorboat this holiday weekend, I wondered what was going through the head of the towee. Did they have a sense that darkness was falling on their careers in motor sports? Did they have an inkling that an oil-and-gas crisis is upon us and just not give a shit? Or were they just going through the motions, following some implacable rote programming induced by, say, forty-odd years of TV addiction and a diet based on corn-syrup byproducts?
The holiday to me was a creepy hiatus from an ever more desperate reality overtaking the nation like a miasma. Meanwhile, the mainstream media's ongoing narrative has gotten stuck in the moronic groove of "drill drill drill." The belief of people like Larry Kudlow of CNBC and uber-mega-idiot John Stossel of ABC-News is that we could go back to $1.50 gasoline if only congress would open the offshore exploration areas and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. This view is just plain erroneous. Nothing we get out of these regions will come close to offsetting the ongoing depletion of worldwide oil resources, or even arresting our own losses.
Larry King had a particularly dreary debate Sunday night between Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and a grab bag of "drill drill drill" advocates. Kennedy took the position that the US could achieve a sort of energy independence by massive deployments of wind and solar equipment. It's an understandable wish, I suppose, but not something I view as consistent with reality. The unfortunate part of the Larry King presentation is that it gives the public an idea that these two fantasies are the only possible responses to our predicament. No one is interested in changing our current behavior.
In the background of these energy conundrums is the sickening spectacle of the nation's fatal insolvency, which remains partially disguised by the machinations of the Federal Reserve, using the various new loan "windows" to maintain the illusion that the major banks have not swindled themselves out of existence -- and in doing so, caused at least $3 trillion (so far) in capital to vanish in a black hole. This three-card-monte game has gone on for a whole year now, and the consequences are hitting home. No more money can be lent into existence now.
One consequence is that other nations sitting on our exported dollars (from our massive trade deficit) have apparently decided to spend off those dollars rather than wait for the fullblown financial collapse of the nation issuing them. My guess is that they are spending those dollars on oil, the primary resource of industrial economies, and that they are prepared to outbid other contestants (including the USA) no matter what -- because they know the dollar is losing value, and that those losses are apt to accelerate over time, and what else would they spend them on? I suspect this is behind the rising price of oil more than anything else -- certainly more than the phantom "speculators" the right wing is yelling about -- and that behind the spending off of those exported dollars are the geological facts of oil being a finite resource inequitably distributed around the world.
But to get back to my prior point, things are hitting home anyway, and with force. The US economy is crumbling because the way we conduct the activities of daily life is insane relative to our circumstances. We've spent sixty years ramping up a suburban living arrangement that has suddenly entered a state of failure, and all its accessories and furnishings are failing in concert. The far-flung McHouse tracts are becoming both useless and worthless in the face of gasoline prices that will never be cheap again. The strip malls and office "parks" are following the residential real estate off a cliff. The retail tenants of all those places are hemorrhaging customers who have maxed out every last credit card. The lack of business is now leading to substantial layoffs. The airline industry is dying and will probably cease to exist in its familiar form in 24 months. The trucking industry is dying, threatening the entire just-in-time distribution system of things that even people with little money to spend still need, like food.
These conditions will now get a lot worse, no matter whether the banks continue to conceal their problems. All of it leads to an inflection point that coincides with the November election. By then, I expect that quite a few banks will be toast, job layoffs will rise spectacularly, foreclosures and bankruptcies will be raging across the land, and homeowners north of the magnolia belt will be shattered by the cost of staying warm this winter.
All this hardship and woe will be blamed on the Republican party. It may actually kill off the party. Political parties do go out-of-business in American history, and this one deserves to die -- with its aggressive no-nothingism, its avaricious, punitive religious extremism (the religious part often being fake), its stunning inattention to financial malfeasance in areas under its direct supervision, and its gross incompetent mismanagement of the nation's strategic interests.
That said, I will feel a little sorry for Mr. Obama if he gets to the White House. He'll have to find a gentle way to tell the truth to the people who elected him, people who will be suffering mightily, and who will be very sore about their losses. He'll have to tell them that the previous "release" of the American Dream software is obsolete, and the new version will require a whole lot more of them in the way of earnest effort, delayed gratification, and revised expectations.
There's a whole lot we can do to greet the new circumstances awaiting us, but the one thing we can't afford to do is put all our efforts into keeping the current system running as is. Reality simply won't permit it. We would squander our dwindling remaining resources trying to keep it all going. The next president is going to have to lead us through the awful process of cutting our losses. So far, the debate has been about how to avoid that.
 
You're sensitivies are 'okay' though I suppose... and yet again, insisting on reducing AB's point to skin colour when what he was commenting on is far more to do with cultural and social issues.

Admiral Beez is the one who originally reduced the "colonies" to skin colour. That can be noted from the post in question.

As I noted (and you missed), I have already pointed out the cultural and economic dynamics are what generated wealth (a concept itself a product derived from specific cultural and economic beliefs).

To what perceived "sensitivities" are you addressing?

Um, did I say it was? I was commenting on Ontario. Thank goodness you're not 'sensitive' or anything.

Just pointed out what should have been obvious. Speaking of sensitive...

Methinks he doth protest too much.

And your lengthy post and answer is not a protest? One can return the comment.
 

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