London Rapid Transit (In-Design)

[kEiThZ]

I am saying that when you have finite funds, it is smarter to go all electric to save on fuel costs than to go all electric and build a BRT at the same time.

$2B could get a Higher Speed service to London via Kitchener after GO RER. Or it can electrify Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. Which one would you rather have?

Also, nobody is suggesting stopping electrification. Just don't go as quickly. After all, electric buses and infrastructure are getting cheaper every year.

Oh well, KWC is probably grateful. This guarantees the full build-out of Ion will be sped up.

 

[micheal_can]

$2B could get a Higher Speed service to London via Kitchener after GO RER. Or it can electrify Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. Which one would you rather have?

Electrify the T-O-M. In the view of becoming more green, that would have more impact.

Also, nobody is suggesting stopping electrification. Just don't go as quickly. After all, electric buses and infrastructure are getting cheaper every year.

So, you like when the costs of operating the diesel buses double overnight?

Oh well, KWC is probably grateful. This guarantees the full build-out of Ion will be sped up.

That is because the people voted a transit friendly council. You get what you vote in. If this next election sees a London Council made up of more pro transit councillors, then great.

 

[kEiThZ]

Electrify the T-O-M. In the view of becoming more green, that would have more impact.

Than getting more cars off the the 401 West of Toronto? Doubtful. Trains are already efficient. Cutting them emissions doesn't do nearly as much as getting a driver to take the train.

Also, i doubt Londoners would agree that it's better for them not to get service.

 

[micheal_can]

Than getting more cars off the the 401 West of Toronto? Doubtful.

Also, i doubt Londoners would agree.

The existing Via traffic is lighter west of Toronto than it is east of Toronto.

 

[kEiThZ]

The existing Via traffic is lighter west of Toronto than it is east of Toronto.

So is the car traffic. Which is why getting cars off the road has a high payoff. Way higher than electrifying a train that has a passenger mile fuel economy on par with a Prius with multiple people.

 

[micheal_can]

So is the car traffic. Which is why getting cars off the road has a high payoff. Way higher than electrifying a train that has a passenger mile fuel economy on par with a Prius with multiple people.

The thing is, Via is not just competing with the car, but the plane too going east. So,the electrification of the T-O-M section would be a better pay off for more people.

 

[kEiThZ]

The thing is, Via is not just competing with the car, but the plane too going east. So,the electrification of the T-O-M section would be a better pay off for more people.

I get it. You like to argue for the sake of arguing. But you should put more effort into your trolling. At least draw out your logical connections. Want to explain how electrification alone makes a train competitive with flying?

Also, this is the London thread. You really want to advocate against London getting improved intercity rail just to commit to your trolling?

 

[micheal_can]

I get it. You like to argue for the sake of arguing. But you should put more effort into your trolling. At least draw out your logical connections. Want to explain how electrification alone makes a train competitive with flying?

Also, this is the London thread. You really want to advocate against London getting improved intercity rail just to commit to your trolling?

I am not trolling or arguing just to argue. What I have been saying is based in reality. I know this is a London thread.

Electrification will allow the trains to have less time spent accelerating and decelerating. So, if you are competing against planes, shaving a few minutes at each station can make a difference. Unless an HFR route can be found west of Toronto, I foresee electrification of the HFR route east of Toronto before more frequent service west of it.

Back to rapid transit.
I'd love to see LRT or even BRT be approved with the city council, but we all know how they are voting. They are voting based on how the citizens of London voted. London is a very car centric city. Hopefully the citizens vote out this council and a new, more transit friendly one gets in. If they do, I foresee the potential for London to mimic Hamilton and change directions. That could mean they are doing electrification of buses while an RT is built.

So, not trolling, unless stating the facts of the day is trolling.

 

[kEiThZ]

Electrification will allow the trains to have less time spent accelerating and decelerating. So, if you are competing against planes, shaving a few minutes at each station can make a difference.

It takes a plane 45 mins to fly from Toronto to Ottawa. Best case scenario for HFR is 3:15 hrs. So electrification is supposed to close a 2.5 hr gap? Would love to see your math for this.

 

[micheal_can]

It takes a plane 45 mins to fly from Toronto to Ottawa. Best case scenario for HFR is 3:15 hrs. So electrification is supposed to close a 2.5 hr gap? Would love to see your math for this.

What is the parking lot to parking lot for flying? I can assure you, it is more than 45 minutes.

 

[ARG1]

Electrification will allow the trains to have less time spent accelerating and decelerating. So, if you are competing against planes, shaving a few minutes at each station can make a difference. Unless an HFR route can be found west of Toronto, I foresee electrification of the HFR route east of Toronto before more frequent service west of it.

This is only true if you have a frequent stopping pattern, such as with Regional Rail. When you're running a long distance intercity service with few stops, the amount of time you save with faster acceleration/deceleration isn't much. Certainly not enough to make a route suddenly competitive with flying.

 

[micheal_can]

This is only true if you have a frequent stopping pattern, such as with Regional Rail. When you're running a long distance intercity service with few stops, the amount of time you save with faster acceleration/deceleration isn't much. Certainly not enough to make a route suddenly competitive with flying.

The other thing, typically diesel trains are not used in higher speed routes. So, electrification can leader to higher speeds than currently possible.
Regardless, with GO going to London already, GO RER is more likely than Via doing much else west of Toronto.

 

[kEiThZ]

So, electrification can leader to higher speeds than currently possible.

Track design determines speeds. Not electrification. The only thing electrification can improve is acceleration and saving 2-3 mins per station is not going to make a line competitive with flying.

This is why I think you're trolling. Just arguing for the sake of being argumentative. And all to just not admit that London not building rapid transit is a poor decision.

 

[micheal_can]

Track design determines speeds. Not electrification. The only thing electrification can improve is acceleration and saving 2-3 mins per station is not going to make a line competitive with flying.

This is why I think you're trolling. Just arguing for the sake of being argumentative. And all to just not admit that London not building rapid transit is a poor decision.

Show me in the world an existing High Speed train that has a diesel on board.To hit the highest speeds, you need to lose weight, and the prime mover is the first to go.

So, nope, not trolling.

 

[kEiThZ]

Show me in the world an existing High Speed train that has a diesel on board.To hit the highest speeds, you need to lose weight, and the prime mover is the first to go.

So we've gone from, "we need electrification to compete" with air travel" to " we need electrification to hit the highest speeds". Which is also wrong. Diesel trains are fully capable of hitting the highest speed they are rated for. In the case of HFR, the Siemens Charger locomotive and Venture cars are rated due 125 mph/201 kph. As explained several times already, those speeds would never be allowed without grade separation. So we're already at the point where the rolling stock capabilities will exceed the design of the corridor.

So, nope, not trolling.

Your off-topic gish gallop in every single thread is trolling.