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London Rapid Transit (In-Design)

LemonCondo

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Than getting more cars off the the 401 West of Toronto? Doubtful. Trains are already efficient. Cutting them emissions doesn't do nearly as much as getting a driver to take the train.

Also, i doubt Londoners would agree that it's better for them not to get service.

How are you gonna convince Londoners to take the train with the lack of quality public transit in the city?
 

LemonCondo

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That is where GO should get involved.

It not just that the City of London is the fastest growing major city in the Province {take that KW!!!} but also it suburban ring cities are also growing very fast such as St.Thomas, Strathroy, Ingersol, Tilsonburg, and Woodstock. There is already a small "community transit" connection service to London from many of these places {except St.Thomas} but it is very weak, only runs the little community size buses, and none of them even go to downtown London but Fanshawe and the LHSC. There is also no fare integration with LT.

London is an ideal place for a comprehensive GO bus service and even a small commuter rail one. The latter would get a lot of ridership because London has no urban freeways so the train would be MUCH faster than driving. For example, the VIA trip from Strathroy {pop 16,000} is 21 minutes but in rush hour it would take one twice as long to get downtown. Such a system would be money far better spent than on the truly useless GO "service" train they are currently running.

A sort of hub in London with mini lines going out of it would be very cool. It would also provide more passengers for a potential upgraded London - Toronto route. (And hopefully a future HSR/HFR line.)
 

micheal_can

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So we've gone from, "we need electrification to compete" with air travel" to " we need electrification to hit the highest speeds". Which is also wrong. Diesel trains are fully capable of hitting the highest speed they are rated for. In the case of HFR, the Siemens Charger locomotive and Venture cars are rated due 125 mph/201 kph. As explained several times already, those speeds would never be allowed without grade separation. So we're already at the point where the rolling stock capabilities will exceed the design of the corridor.
I am talking 300+km/hr.Yes, it would need to be grade separated. But when they did it, the current equipment cannot do it.
Your off-topic gish gallop in every single thread is trolling.
I believe you brought up HSR, so I am just responding.
You must be getting people mixed up. Read my posts. I'm critical of them not building LRT.
I am too, but unlike you, I understand why.
 

Haljackey

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Regardless, with GO going to London already, GO RER is more likely than Via doing much else west of Toronto.

The GO service to London is a joke and is hardly ever used. Who wants to spend 4-4.5 hours EACH way to Toronto and back? I'd much rather drive or take Via.

Regardless, the current BRT plan does not have a connection with the train station downtown which is a miss IMO. The Downtown Loop route should have incorporated this somehow, or the south gateway could have veered towards the station a bit before heading south on the Wellington Corridor.

-----

Regarding the next municipal election, I try to be a cautiously optimistic fellow but I cannot see any new routes greenlighted by the next council. At best we can hope the routes that are already approved get built as I am sure some anti-BRT councilors would love to reopen and nix them if elected..
 

kEiThZ

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The GO service to London is a joke and is hardly ever used. Who wants to spend 4-4.5 hours EACH way to Toronto and back? I'd much rather drive or take Via.

I'm really curious who is using this. It takes way too long to even get to Kitchener.

At best we can hope the routes that are already approved get built as I am sure some anti-BRT councilors would love to reopen and nix them if elected..

Network effects. I don't get how any rapid transit will succeed without a filled out network. And I fear when it doesn't get the ridership they want, it'll be justification to avoid further investment. At this point, I'm just hoping that KWC and Hamilton grow faster than London.
 

Haljackey

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I'm really curious who is using this. It takes way too long to even get to Kitchener.



Network effects. I don't get how any rapid transit will succeed without a filled out network. And I fear when it doesn't get the ridership they want, it'll be justification to avoid further investment. At this point, I'm just hoping that KWC and Hamilton grow faster than London.

Next to no one uses the GO service. It's almost like the PCs put it in as a way to try and get votes from the London area last election (they failed, all of London went NDP again), and now they have a excuse to kill it showing that commuter trains aren't a viable option. It's bleeding money that could be utilized much better elsewhere.

Unlike most cities (even much smaller ones!), London does not have a central transit hub. There's no location that exists where you can hop off one bus and hop on another without crossing the street, walking a block, etc. The Downtown Loop route will help concentrate connections at the new BRT stops, but these are just stops and not stations.

Ideally London could have expanded the VIA train station to incorporate a transit hub. It's a good central location for people to switch buses, and obviously provides a convenient link to the rails for those wanting to hop off a bus and onto a train.

Lots of paved paradise that could have been utilized for a great BRT transit hub.
RrD7qd3.png
 
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micheal_can

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The GO service to London is a joke and is hardly ever used. Who wants to spend 4-4.5 hours EACH way to Toronto and back? I'd much rather drive or take Via.

Regardless, the current BRT plan does not have a connection with the train station downtown which is a miss IMO. The Downtown Loop route should have incorporated this somehow, or the south gateway could have veered towards the station a bit before heading south on the Wellington Corridor.

-----

Regarding the next municipal election, I try to be a cautiously optimistic fellow but I cannot see any new routes greenlighted by the next council. At best we can hope the routes that are already approved get built as I am sure some anti-BRT councilors would love to reopen and nix them if elected..

The worst par is, the timing sucks if you want to commute as a 9-5er to Toronto for work. I really don't see who this benefits at all. And I am someone who would normally be wanting more rail projects...
 

Haljackey

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The worst par is, the timing sucks if you want to commute as a 9-5er to Toronto for work. I really don't see who this benefits at all. And I am someone who would normally be wanting more rail projects...

a 8 hour workday with a 8-9 hour commute on top of that? And add time to get to the train station in London and your office in Toronto and you're probably closer to 9.5 or 10 hours. 18 hour day means you have just 6 hours at home to do stuff and sleep.

The previous Liberal government wanted a HSR line from London to Toronto. That would have opened this kind of commute up a little, but its still a lot of hassle and expensive.

If HSR ever comes to London it better have a BRT connection. This guy actually had something nice to say about London on Youtube for once. Blurb starts about 10 mins in.


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London's 'frontrunner' mayoral candiate voted against the west leg of the BRT as councilor, mostly because he didn't like how the plan had the route running in mixed traffic for some of it. Gotta start somewhere buddy, geesh.
 

micheal_can

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a 8 hour workday with a 8-9 hour commute on top of that? And add time to get to the train station in London and your office in Toronto and you're probably closer to 9.5 or 10 hours. 18 hour day means you have just 6 hours at home to do stuff and sleep.

The previous Liberal government wanted a HSR line from London to Toronto. That would have opened this kind of commute up a little, but its still a lot of hassle and expensive.

If HSR ever comes to London it better have a BRT connection. This guy actually had something nice to say about London on Youtube for once. Blurb starts about 10 mins in.


I do agree that it seems silly, but if you are going to attempt it, at least try to do it so it makes sense.
For instance, it could be an express train after Kitchener Station till Weston to allow for a connection to the UPX.
That and have it so that it does arrive with time for business people to be able to take advantage of it.
London will become a commuter city in all due time, so having the infrastructure set up for the first ones to kind of do it efficiently does make some sense.

I feel no HSR stops should be devoid of RT. That would be a failure of design and future planning.For instance, it would be expected that Kingston would be a stop for HSR going east. If the city does not want any RT built, then they get passed by.Same for London and Windsor (And Sarina if they go there.).

London's 'frontrunner' mayoral candiate voted against the west leg of the BRT as councilor, mostly because he didn't like how the plan had the route running in mixed traffic for some of it. Gotta start somewhere buddy, geesh.
If it is at the end, that is fine, but if it is anywhere between reserved lanes, then it will be a mess, and that makes sense. Maybe they could ahve pushed it back to design to have that fixed. I feel politicians are quick to approve or deny something, but aren't willing to get something fixed to approve it. That needs to change at all levels of governments.
 

Haljackey

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If it is at the end, that is fine, but if it is anywhere between reserved lanes, then it will be a mess, and that makes sense. Maybe they could ahve pushed it back to design to have that fixed. I feel politicians are quick to approve or deny something, but aren't willing to get something fixed to approve it. That needs to change at all levels of governments.

The west leg had BRT running in mixed traffic right in the middle of the route, not at the end. The stretch on Wharncliffe you see here- the purple dashes- was the mixed traffic portion.

before-and-after.jpg
.

The route nixed-
west-connection-brt-london.jpg



While not the best, gotta start somewhere. Maybe in time that mixed traffic area could have been fixed up.
 
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micheal_can

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The west leg had BRT running in mixed traffic right in the middle of the route, not at the end. The stretch on Wharncliffe you see here- the purple dashes- was the mixed traffic portion.

before-and-after.jpg
.

The route nixed-
west-connection-brt-london.jpg



While not the best, gotta start somewhere. Maybe in time that mixed traffic area could have been fixed up.
So get rid of the section west of the river. Keep the downtown loop, and send it up Richmond to Oxford. Or just do the one line first, and do it properly.
 

innsertnamehere

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I love how London is now only building the two most useless BRT legs of the original plan, while the busiest corridors will continue to operate in mixed traffic. Just excellent planning all around.
 

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