King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[steveintoronto]

So from my vantage point, I would say there is good but far from absolute compliance with the new rules.[...]

Excellent pics, and I'm about to cycle down there now to look around while it's still relatively deserted, but immediately, this concerns me:

I was led to believe from the renderings that the *whole loading/unloading area* for streetcars was to be hatched at the least, perhaps even barriers erected to delineate and protect the space, not to mention impatient cyclists (there's still a good number who do this) now having even less space to pass illegally while the streetcar is stopped, and passing even closer to the streetcar to do it in a blind spot for disembarking passengers to see.


Is this just one instance of how this is being done, and different stops are done more comprehensively as per dedicated and protected space?

This illustrates the implied flow for cyclists:

Got to get a closer look at this shortly, it rings alarm bells for pedestrian and TTC passenger safety. It seems to me that a better way would be for the access ramp to extend entirely to the stopped streetcar, blocking vehicular passage for all except the outside lane (where the tracks are), thus forcing them to stop when the streetcar does, and encouraging faster ingress/egress of passengers.

Got to see this first-hand before commenting further...

Another question: Does anyone know if using the opposing lane to pass a stopped streetcar is legal? This brings into question the single solid white/yellow line v double solid white/yellow line debate. It's an important point, because sure as hell some impatient motorist is going to try this, and it turns to grief. The actual meaning of a solid white/yellow line remains ambiguous under even the HTA. (careful when answering that, as it has huge implications for cyclists and cycle lanes, let alone motorists crossing them to turn, as discussed in the HTA but not comprehensively).

 

[Lansdude]

Let's wait til tomorrow when bank and government offices are open to see what happens on a typical day.

 

[MetroMan]

While I'm not surprised about the almost unanimous ignorance of the prohibited straight through traffic sign, I'm kind of surprised by the amount of cars continuing to make left turns. That's a sign that you check for when you want to make a left. The big bold NO LEFT TURN sign is pretty clear. Yet, people are doing it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Excellent pics, and I'm about to cycle down there now to look around while it's still relatively deserted, but immediately, this concerns me:
View attachment 127077

I was led to believe from the renderings that the *whole loading/unloading area* for streetcars was to be hatched at the least, perhaps even barriers erected to delineate and protect the space, not to mention impatient cyclists (there's still a good number who do this) now having even less space to pass illegally while the streetcar is stopped, and passing even closer to the streetcar to do it in a blind spot for disembarking passengers to see.

Is this just one instance of how this is being done, and different stops are done more comprehensively as per dedicated and protected space?

This illustrates the implied flow for cyclists:

View attachment 127078

Got to get a closer look at this shortly, it rings alarm bells for pedestrian and TTC passenger safety. It seems to me that a better way would be for the access ramp to extend entirely to the stopped streetcar, blocking vehicular passage for all except the outside lane (where the tracks are), thus forcing them to stop when the streetcar does, and encouraging faster ingress/egress of passengers.

Got to see this first-hand before commenting further...

Another question: Does anyone know if using the opposing lane to pass a stopped streetcar is legal? This brings into question the single solid white line v double solid white line debate. It's an important point, because sure as hell some impatient motorist is going to try this, and it turns to grief. The actual meaning of a solid white line remains ambiguous under even the HTA. (careful when answering that, as it has huge implications for cyclists and cycle lanes, let alone motorists crossing them to turn, as discussed in the HTA but not comprehensively).

It’s a trial. I assume the permanent ingratitude will be more cycle-friendly.

 

[MetroMan]

Let's wait til tomorrow when bank and government offices are open to see what happens on a typical day.

You mean its going to get worse?

 

[TOareaFan]

So, I fancied a sushi burrito for lunch so I walked over to John Street from my office at King/Uni......again, things seem to be operating pretty smoothly......and King is eerily quiet (so same as my morning observation)....one thing that surprised me is how far someone who turns right onto King from Simcoe can travel WB without being forced to turn right.....they are not forced to turn onto Duncan....and when they get to John there is most definitely a right hand turn only option from the right lane but there is no signage saying they have to turn right and there is no "hashing" in the left lane......so it would appear from a legal perspective they have every right to to change lanes into the streetcar lane and continue through the intersection of King and John.......how far can they actually go before being forced off of King?

 

[PinkLucy]

People don't notice new signage. A "no right" sign was installed in my area to stop cars turning onto a side street, and every morning I watched so many people turning right. The police had someone stationed there for the first few months, and they pulled over car after car and handed out tickets. I am sure they made that turn because there were used to doing so, and they simply did not see the new signage (despite all the bright "new" signs).

 

[dende]

One thing I've noticed from photos (as in the one just above) is that the white lane markings have been left as is just before the yellow striped boxes at intersections. There doesn't appear to be any signage or road markings indicating that one should move to the right lane -- instead the centre lane just ends.

I was expecting from the diagrams that the lane markings would be repainted such that the centre lane veers to the right edge of the road and that those in the right lane need to merge left.

 

[DSC]

You mean its going to get worse?

It really isn't that bad; I just walked from Sherbourne to University and my observations are:
1. As noted above, the traffic is extremely light - yes it's a Federal holiday but many people are just avoiding King.
2. It is definitely confusing to see a 'regular' green light when you are not actually supposed to go straight ahead - as noted by many the signage takes second place to the light (and to habit.)
3.Pedestrians are unused to the fact that they need to wait for THEIR light - there seem to be no signs for pedestrians (though they might not read them!)
4. Yes, there are vehicles breaking the law. Most I saw were cabs and a few fines will soon get the word out to that community.
4. I saw lots of TTC staff at stops but not a single cop. Absolutely no enforcement. The police REALLY need to get with it.

See Ed Keenan in Star at https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/11/13/a-transit-miracle-on-king-st-shows-how-it-can-work.html

 

[TOareaFan]

4. I saw lots of TTC staff at stops but not a single cop. Absolutely no enforcement. The police REALLY need to get with it.

Saw a lot of TTC employees at stops too.....holding some sort of flier to give to people.....I suspect the cops are "on standby" on this....if the city or TTC tell them "we are not getting the results we wanted out of the pilot" they will press into action.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I remember when the Bloor-Danforth (now Line 2) Subway opened on Saturday, February 26, 1966, people still waited at streetcar stops for a streetcar that never came. Even on the following Monday, people still waited for non-existing streetcars. Even with signage, broadcast commercials, and news reports.

 

[steveintoronto]

While I'm not surprised about the almost unanimous ignorance of the prohibited straight through traffic sign, I'm kind of surprised by the amount of cars continuing to make left turns. That's a sign that you check for when you want to make a left. The big bold NO LEFT TURN sign is pretty clear. Yet, people are doing it.

This is where I diverge with other posters, albeit perhaps only by extent.

Ignoring "No Left Turn" signs in Toronto is rampant and chronic. All well and good that some posters think it's just a case of becoming aware of them. Same could be said for red lights. "Oh, I didn't see it". At the corner near me (Dundas West and Bloor) I see *the same drivers* day in and day out making the same illegal left hand turn. And then listen to the other drivers honk their horns. This has been going on for *decades* at that corner and many others. The intensity and duration of the honking coincides mostly with rush-hour, but does continue through the day. It's more often than not instigated by streetcars being blocked by idiot drivers doing as they please. There's no consequence for motorists doing it, so they continue to do it.

As to why the City didn't use the lit versions (as per Avenue Rd and Bloor) is a very good question. They're being used in many crucial intersections.

 

[UD2]

There need to be big thick arrows on the street car lane indicating to cars that they need to merge right. It can't just be a yellow stripe zone, that's too hard to see for motorists not already expecting it.

There should also be barriers protecting the streetcar loading area from traffic/cyclists. My understanding is that the entire space on the road was meant to be a street car "platform" and therefore people could technically wait on the road instead of side walk.

And what happened to painting coloured zones on the street? Isn't that in every single pilot slide deck?

Painting the street with arrows and colours isn't something that's very expensive to do and I'm surprised they didn't do it.

 

[UD2]

This is where I diverge with other posters, albeit perhaps only by extent.

Ignoring "No Left Turn" signs in Toronto is rampant and chronic. All well and good that some posters think it's just a case of becoming aware of them. Same could be said for red lights. "Oh, I didn't see it". At the corner near me (Dundas West and Bloor) I see *the same drivers* day in and day out making the same illegal left hand turn. And then listen to the other drivers honk their horns. This has been going on for *decades* at that corner and many others. The intensity and duration of the honking coincides with rush-hour, but does continue through the day. It's more often than not instigated by streetcars being blocked by idiot drivers doing as they please. There's no consequence for doing it, so they do it.

As to why the City didn't use the lit versions (as per Avenue Rd and Bloor) is a very good question. They're being used in many crucial intersections.

I actually find the LED lit version to be more ineffective. The doted LED lights are very bright and sometimes create a blinding effect that makes the sign harder to discern. the signs need to be bigger. Make the pictogram it self the full height of the traffic light and put words "buses bicycles excepted" beside the pictograms. And the pictogram for no straight and no left can be combined into one.

Drivers need to pay attention to cars, lights, people, bicycles, streetcars, and sometimes small signs are easy to miss if you're not particularly looking at it. Especially if you are following a larger vehicle (like a streetcar) which pretty much block your entire view of any signs within visible range.

 

[Rapparee]

I spoke to the TTC employee at the northeast corner of King and University. She's been there since 6 a.m. I watched several cabs and other cars sail straight through the intersection. She said that there hasn't been a single police officer there all day other than a paid duty officer between 6 and 7:30 to direct traffic while construction debris was cleaned up. She sounded exasperated.