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Is CityPlace Toronto’s next ghetto?

It is entirely possible that cityplace could degenerate somewhat. The real interesting question is not "will cityplace become the new St. James Town". The real interesting question is will St. James Town one day revert to higher end housing? I think this is also a distinct possibility.
 
St. Jamestown and Regent Park were horrible places to live in from the get go. Public transit was a long walk away from most residences, there was no retail, no supermarkets in the area, poorly kept grass 50m around each and every building. No washing machines ensuite. Terrible heating. No A/C. Few or no amenities. And aesthetically the buildings were an eye-sore from the moment they were built.

What did you expect when both districts were built as public housing to begin with? Correction, Regent Park was designated as public housing from the beginning and St James Town had four of the original towers specified for that purpose. At one point both locations did have access to supermarkets, a swimming pool ( remember swimming @Regent Park in the 70's); St James Town was in walking distance to the Bloor line subway and bus services......
 
It's funny that someone who lives at Cityplace is just as close to Queen West as someone who lives in Riverdale is to Queen East yet Riverdale is a great neighboorhood with so much to offer but the 4 block radius of Cityplace is a ghetto. Riverdale is full of backyards where everyone can hide from the public whereas Cityplace is just condos.
To all those that say Cityplace residents can't walk anywhere and have to drive everywhere, what do residents near Withrow Park do?

Riverdalians hiding in their backyards are not really the issue -- it would be equivalent of Cityplacers 'hiding' on their balcony. It's what do you do when you go outside -- do you walk up to Danforth or down to Queen for dinner? Do you shop in east Chinatown? Do you take the kids to Withrow to toboggan?

I think Cityplace will be just fine. The parks are coming together, and biking/walking through Canoe Landing/Fort York/June Callwood to Coronation will be a great greenspace. And the ped bridge will help, too. None of those things are complete yet. Just give them time. As for shopping in Chinatown or eating on King West or drinking at the Wheat Sheaf -- those place aren't far. Folks will walk to them when the walkways are in place. Which just leaves... where's the toboggan hill??

One of the more amusing things for me in this article is the real estate 'writer'/agent. Who hires this dude? One of the HUGE issues for St. James town was the time it was built -- the owners were slapped with rent controls to try to contain inflation, and responded by cutting maintenance to the bone, and the spiral started. I cannot conceive of a condo owner (even an investor) being that short-sighted. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet that Cityplace looks a damn sight better than Jamestown in 30 years.
 
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Not surprised. The neighbourhood will become a ghetto in 20 years? The buildings will fail in 15 years!--at least according to this article I read this morning.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/torontos-glass-condos-face-short-lifespan-experts-114359149.html

I'm planning on moving to Toronto next year and found cityplace a nice place to invest in, but now I've completely changed my mind. I might just rent a cityplace condo for a few months before I find a better place to invest in and buy my first home.
 
Not surprised. The neighbourhood will become a ghetto in 20 years? The buildings will fail in 15 years!--at least according to this article I read this morning.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/torontos-glass-condos-face-short-lifespan-experts-114359149.html

I'm planning on moving to Toronto next year and found cityplace a nice place to invest in, but now I've completely changed my mind. I might just rent a cityplace condo for a few months before I find a better place to invest in and buy my first home.

On that note, there is another thread discussing the pros & cons of the glass walls: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...gs-CBC-Metro-Morning-CBC-News-at-Five-and-Six
 
thanks! my apologies, I'm new here

No need to apologize as many people are/were unaware of the long-term implications of using glass in that manner. In that context, it is a valid point in this thread too.
Oh and welcome!
 
What did you expect when both districts were built as public housing to begin with? Correction, Regent Park was designated as public housing from the beginning and St James Town had four of the original towers specified for that purpose. At one point both locations did have access to supermarkets, a swimming pool ( remember swimming @Regent Park in the 70's); St James Town was in walking distance to the Bloor line subway and bus services......

I expect something like The Esplanade, which is a delightful neighbourhood.

That walking distance between St. James Town and the subway is awful to actually walk. The whole neighbourhood is aesthetically off and has been from the second it was built. It is simply a depressing place to be in terms of realm, whereas Cityplace is not.

Walk down Canoe Landing Park at sunset and imagine the buildings that are missing, and you'll see that it's quite a beautiful place, like the Esplanade, regardless of what's going on inside the buildings. Future Cityplace tenants might not be as wealthy as they are today on average, but chances are it will remain a safe neighbourhood capable of providing its inhabitants with a quality of life way above average. Distance to Spadina, ease of customising the units, the Loblaws and the Sobeys, and the views alone pretty much guarantee that.
 
That walking distance between St. James Town and the subway is awful to actually walk. The whole neighbourhood is aesthetically off and has been from the second it was built. It is simply a depressing place to be in terms of realm, whereas Cityplace is not.

I agree completely, although it's getting better now on Sherbourne with James Cooper, it's still not great. My daughters went to school on Linden, and for their friends living in St. James Town, that should have been great. But the 'inside roads', walkways, and icy winds howling through the buildings meant it was quite a chore to be outside at all.
 
As a 3 year resident (owner) in CityPlace i thought I'd just share my own personal experience here. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or start any arguments, I'll just say what it's like for me personally living here.

First a short anecdote:

I was walking across the Spadina bridge last week behind two guys in their late 20s. One was telling the other all about CityPlace. He pointed at it and said, "See there? That's CityPlace, you do NOT want to live here. It's going to be a ghetto soon. It's all renters. The place sucks." His friend went "Huh, I didn't know that." The first guy continued, "Yeah, where you really want to live is Liberty Village, that place is great."

I'm in my 30s and a life long Toronto resident. I grew up at Yonge & Eglinton, and then moved down to Roncesvalles (Sorauren) where I bought in the Robert Watson Lofts before moving to CityPlace. Living in 100 year old converted loft space was super cool and authentic but also very noisy and without a concierge or security you had to deal with inconsiderate neighbours yourself. Now I'm in N2 right across from the Sobey's looking North. I walk to work (King and Peter) and get all my groceries across the street from my apartment. When I need to drive somewhere the ramp to the Gardiner Expressway is two minutes from my garage door. I park underground in a clean well lit parking garage. I share services with 2 other buildings and pay comparatively low maintenance fees. We have 24 hour security/concierge that is strict but polite. If anyone is making too much noise (which is rare) there's a knock at the door within 10 minutes and the noise stops. The building is clean and well kept inside and out. In the summer it's gorgeous to go for bike rides along the Martin Goodman trail out to the Humber river. I travel frequently to Chicago and NYC and there's nothing better then getting off a Porter flight and just walking home.

From my 3 years of observing, the majority of the residents are young professionals who work in the downtown core, not the cliche of students living in rental units owned by their parents or foreign investors. The age (at least in my building) is not a bunch of 20 year old students. There's a good mix of people in their 30s and 40s. People look after the place, there's a nice sense of community.

CityPlace is still growing. It's not finished. But the part that is finished (at least West of Spadina) is working. It's a great community. I honestly scratch my head and smile when people say it 'sucks' or is going to 'suck'. I really feel like there's some misplaced anger/jealousy for the place within Toronto (the same way people from outside Toronto don't like Toronto.)

I'm not going to make future predictions for what this city will be like in 20 years, nobody knows, but it honestly feels like CityPlace is a community that works and is headed in the right direction.

Anyway, just wanted to give my 2 cents.
 
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I think the article is a bit biased, not well researched, and doesn't look at the perspective of those who actually live there.
I am currently renting at Cityplace simply because I am waiting to for my condo to be finished due to construction delays. Before I moved into Cityplace I had my reservations and misconceptions regarding this massive development, but with the reasonable rental prices that are being offered, amount of inventory to choose from, great amenities, proximity to everything, and the fact it is new or newer, choosing to rent at Cityplace made a lot of sense and I am sure the thousands of young professionals who live here feel the same way too. Living at Cityplace is not as bad as I thought it would be. I especially like being within walking distance to everything: the Harbourfront, Toronto Island Airport, my office and restaurants on King West, Rogers Centre, Chinatown, TIFF, Scotiabank theatre, etc.
Cityplace is not exactly the frat house atmosphere many believe it to be. There are a lot of young residents here, but for the most part the building is calm and orderly. I think the late night chaos every weekend in the King and Portland area is much, much worse and don't understand why anyone would want to live there.

Sure, living at Cityplace has its issues, but living in any highrise condo with 400-700 units will have issues. Cityplace has received a bad reputation simply because it is a massive development full of big highrise condos and all progressively built in a relatively short period of time, not unlike a suburban development.
I think Liberty Village (particularly the east side) falls into this category too, but not targeted as much because it is not all built by one developer.

Cityplace has a wide range of units from small studios to multi-level and live/work townhouses to sprawling penthouses, ranging from the upper $200,000's to over $3-million. So once Cityplace is fully built and occupied it will have a wide range of residents and bring more retail to the area. Once the pedestrian bridge to Portland/Front Streets is open an Fort York Blvd is fully connected to Dan Leckie Way and Bathurst Street, Cityplace will be much more connected and bring more foot traffic. Fort York Blvd is also designed to accomodate a future streetcar line which will further connect this community to the city. Canoe Landing park is perhaps the best public amenity and the centerpiece of the development.

Will I ever buy or live in Cityplace long term? Most likely not.
I personally much prefer living in a more intimate boutique building where I know most of my neighbors, where there are not so many renters (less turnover) and there is a better sense of privacy. Also real estate appreciation is not as great at Cityplace simply because there is so much inventory and higher ratio of investors. I dislike its proximity to the Gardiner due to the noise and pollution -- I don't enjoy my balcony as much as I like (but this is the case with any condo built near the Gardiner).

There are many people I have met here who like living here and they not just the young professionals and students that stereotypes the residents of Cityplace. There are empty nesters, retirees and families with children here, though they are still the minority here.

This is an interesting article written by The Toronto Star's architecture critic Christopher Hume on Cityplace:
Cityplace proving its critics wrong
http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/column...do-critic-cityplace-proving-its-critics-wrong
Cityplace has its fair share of detractors, but the fact is that it appears ready to become one of the most successful planned neighbourhoods in Toronto.
Development of the old railway lands started on the east side of Spadina and now continues on the west. Clearly, the lessons learned on the former were applied on the latter. Though there's much skepticism about this sort of urban mega-development, Cityplace seems to be getting it right.
As much as anything, this success is based on a solid understanding on the importance of the public realm. Much remains to be finished, but the attention to public amenities such as sidewalks, parks and even architecture has already made a difference.
Certainly, Cityplace will not be another St. James Town in terms of what's going on at street level. At Cityplace, roads are connected and sidewalks lined with planters. There are even a few small squares and public art pieces. The quality of the planning is matched by the quality of the architecture, which is remarkably sophisticated.
The most obvious problem is that of Spadina, which bisects the site. Where it meets Bremner Blvd./Fort York Dr., Spadina is fully nine lanes wide, seven for cars, two for streetcars. The reason, of course, is that Spadina has been turned into an on/off ramp for the Gardiner Expressway and Lake Shore Blvd.
Why the city would allow such a use in an area set aside for residential development remains a mystery. It looks like another example of trying to have it both ways; clearly, the idea was to allow the suburbanization of Toronto to continue while accommodating urban intensification.
At some point, the city will have to decide in which direction it wants to go.
 
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A "friend" of mine lives at CityPlace (in Luna) so I've visited quite a few times. I find it a nice building. Sometimes the guest parking is full though. But if not it's pretty convenient. Driving to work in the morning is pretty much a breeze, little traffic (around 6:00ish).

There is the Sobeys and RBC nearby. And you can easily walk to King/Queen. Church/Wellesley is kinda far, but other than that the location is very good.
 
A "friend" of mine lives at CityPlace (in Luna) so I've visited quite a few times. I find it a nice building. Sometimes the guest parking is full though. But if not it's pretty convenient. Driving to work in the morning is pretty much a breeze, little traffic (around 6:00ish).

There is the Sobeys and RBC nearby. And you can easily walk to King/Queen. Church/Wellesley is kinda far, but other than that the location is very good.

I and most people in this city wouldn't want to visit Church/Wellesley any more often than Finch/Birchmount.
 

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