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Intercity Bus Services

Bordercollie said:
That depends on ridership
Click to expand...
Ok but ridership can be built.

Example: Last year they introduced the 18K from Aldershot to Brock University via Hamilton, and when it started, it was eeeempty. But after a year of service, it is packed, even in the middle of the day. So there was definitely demand for commutes from Hamilton to Niagara not already served by the 12, which it parallels half of the way.

This is with a route that runs Mon-Fri, and only like 10 times a day.

Unfortunately it means Metrolinx is likely the only one who has the resources to do it, as startups (or established players) look only at profitability.
However here's what I propose:

25B Waterloo - Hamilton (new stops in black)
Monday - Friday
8 times per day (3 am rush hour, 2 mid-day, 3 pm rush)

U of Waterloo - Kitchener Central - Sportsworld P&R - Aberfoyle P&R - Waterdown - McMaster U - Hamilton GO Centre
Total Run Time: 1h30min

29B Guelph - Hamilton (new stops in black)
Monday - Friday
8 times per day (3 am rush hour, 2 mid-day, 3 pm rush)

Guelph Central - U of Guelph - Aberfoyle P&R - Waterdown - McMaster U - Hamilton GO Centre
Total Run Time: 1h10min

The infrastructure is basically already there.
Now who do I gotta go pester to make this reality 🙃
 
Diez Mil Cantos said:
Ok but ridership can be built.

Example: Last year they introduced the 18K from Aldershot to Brock University via Hamilton, and when it started, it was eeeempty. But after a year of service, it is packed, even in the middle of the day. So there was definitely demand for commutes from Hamilton to Niagara not already served by the 12, which it parallels half of the way.

This is with a route that runs Mon-Fri, and only like 10 times a day.

Unfortunately it means Metrolinx is likely the only one who has the resources to do it, as startups (or established players) look only at profitability.
However here's what I propose:

25B Waterloo - Hamilton (new stops in black)
Monday - Friday
8 times per day (3 am rush hour, 2 mid-day, 3 pm rush)

U of Waterloo - Kitchener Central - Sportsworld P&R - Aberfoyle P&R - Waterdown - McMaster U - Hamilton GO Centre
Total Run Time: 1h30min

29B Guelph - Hamilton (new stops in black)
Monday - Friday
8 times per day (3 am rush hour, 2 mid-day, 3 pm rush)

Guelph Central - U of Guelph - Aberfoyle P&R - Waterdown - McMaster U - Hamilton GO Centre
Total Run Time: 1h10min

The infrastructure is basically already there.
Now who do I gotta go pester to make this reality 🙃
Click to expand...
Coach Canada used to run from Hamilton to Niagara falls. Is that route no longer running?
 
Diez Mil Cantos said:
Ok but ridership can be built.

Example: Last year they introduced the 18K from Aldershot to Brock University via Hamilton, and when it started, it was eeeempty. But after a year of service, it is packed, even in the middle of the day. So there was definitely demand for commutes from Hamilton to Niagara not already served by the 12, which it parallels half of the way.

This is with a route that runs Mon-Fri, and only like 10 times a day.

Unfortunately it means Metrolinx is likely the only one who has the resources to do it, as startups (or established players) look only at profitability.
However here's what I propose:

25B Waterloo - Hamilton (new stops in black)
Monday - Friday
8 times per day (3 am rush hour, 2 mid-day, 3 pm rush)

U of Waterloo - Kitchener Central - Sportsworld P&R - Aberfoyle P&R - Waterdown - McMaster U - Hamilton GO Centre
Total Run Time: 1h30min

29B Guelph - Hamilton (new stops in black)
Monday - Friday
8 times per day (3 am rush hour, 2 mid-day, 3 pm rush)

Guelph Central - U of Guelph - Aberfoyle P&R - Waterdown - McMaster U - Hamilton GO Centre
Total Run Time: 1h10min

The infrastructure is basically already there.
Now who do I gotta go pester to make this reality 🙃
Click to expand...

I remember back in the 1980s my grandparents and I taking Gray Coach from Hamilton to visit family in Guelph. It's crazy, we have zero direct routes now, and look the size of populations in these cities compared to what they were 35 years ago!
 
gabe said:
I remember back in the 1980s my grandparents and I taking Gray Coach from Hamilton to visit family in Guelph. It's crazy, we have zero direct routes now, and look the size of populations in these cities compared to what they were 35 years ago!
Click to expand...

That would have been Canada Coach Lines, actually, which operated out of Downtown Hamilton and was owned by the HSR, just as Gray Coach was owned by the TTC. Both were sold around 1990.
 
It is clear metrolinx/this government has no interest in serving the route between KW or Guelph and Hamilton, nor even Guelph to KW. Maybe as political tides turn this will change, but for now it’s limited to dotted lines on a map in the 2051 GGH plan. The route(s) would generate demand, no doubt, and would do plenty for this part of the province. It simply is not being pursued by an actual public entity, though. It could maybe be chalked up to a lack of initiative from the cities involved and/or Waterloo Region’s distinct fare system from Presto, but I find that a pretty lacklustre excuse.

It is tiring to try and justify why this isn’t happening. Unless Mx explicitly gives a reason why, I am going to chalk it up to poor allocation of time & resources on their part- short of actual incompetence or political motivations. Private companies have tried the route, and I actually used the FlixBus when it ran. But these entities don’t have the patience to induce ridership, and both times the bus I rode was nearly empty. I’m not sure what they expected given it was a previously nonexistent route only around for 4 months or so. In any case, I don’t hold them accountable; It’s not the private sectors responsibility to make up for public shortcomings.

Oh, and to be clear, the benefits of the route(s) are to close the artificial gap in the urban economies of Hamilton and KW-G. They are close enough that easy access to one another would drive new economic growth, but as it stands they exist in isolation from one another, keeping opportunities for both cities limited. We might as well be talking about Barrie and Hamilton or KW and Oshawa, since the travel time between these pairs are basically equivalent to Hamilton-KW by transit right now.
 
Thread here in case it's of interest.

1670431755482.png
 
Admiral Beez said:
With VIA stations at both ends why would anyone take a bus from London to Toronto?
Click to expand...

The same reason why there’s so many buses between Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal, with most of those stopping in Kingston. They’re usually cheaper and they run on different schedules.

Red Arrow - which offers a superior ride than other coach operators - isn’t cheaper than VIA, but it made a lot of sense for the Calgary-Edmonton run. Less so between Toronto and Ottawa, especially since it uses the GO Union Terminal and the Ottawa VIA Station.
 
My thoughts after riding Red Arrow to Kingston last week:

seanmarshall.ca

Ontario intercity transportation at the end of 2022: More choices, fewer routes

A Red Arrow coach lays over at a Harvey’s restaurant in Kingston on the way to Ottawa On December 7, I took a trip out to Kingston to ride the newest coach operator to arrive in Ontario: Red …
seanmarshall.ca seanmarshall.ca

Below, a timetable of the existing bus services between Toronto and Ottawa. Book-A-Ride is another newer service, but its website is not the easiest to navigate. It seems to run much like a charter service, with regular schedule changes, rather than a consistent service.



Toronto-Ottawa Times - Dec 2022.jpg
 
ShonTron said:
My thoughts after riding Red Arrow to Kingston last week:

seanmarshall.ca

Ontario intercity transportation at the end of 2022: More choices, fewer routes

A Red Arrow coach lays over at a Harvey’s restaurant in Kingston on the way to Ottawa On December 7, I took a trip out to Kingston to ride the newest coach operator to arrive in Ontario: Red …
seanmarshall.ca seanmarshall.ca

Below, a timetable of the existing bus services between Toronto and Ottawa. Book-A-Ride is another newer service, but its website is not the easiest to navigate. It seems to run much like a charter service, with regular schedule changes, rather than a consistent service.



View attachment 444531
Click to expand...
So VIA is still faster if it's on time. Then again, buses get stuck in traffic and the weather doesn't help.
 
ShonTron said:
My thoughts after riding Red Arrow to Kingston last week:

seanmarshall.ca

Ontario intercity transportation at the end of 2022: More choices, fewer routes

A Red Arrow coach lays over at a Harvey’s restaurant in Kingston on the way to Ottawa On December 7, I took a trip out to Kingston to ride the newest coach operator to arrive in Ontario: Red …
seanmarshall.ca seanmarshall.ca

Below, a timetable of the existing bus services between Toronto and Ottawa. Book-A-Ride is another newer service, but its website is not the easiest to navigate. It seems to run much like a charter service, with regular schedule changes, rather than a consistent service.



View attachment 444531
Click to expand...
Interesting to compare with my own versions from my post on the previous page:
ottorrbus-png.439672


capture-png.439337


It is indeed remarkable how different the Book A Ride schedules are, even though my timetable is only two weeks old.

The difference in some of the intermediate times for VIA and Flixbus is presumably that I was using departure times while you were using arrival times.

BTW if I'd known you were making your own version I would have sent you my spreadsheet. That probably would have saved you some time even if you wished to modify/update it.
 
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