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Ignatieff is useless

Ignatieff slams Tory attempt to annul votes at University of Guelph

OTTAWA — Elections Canada says ballots cast at the University of Guelph are valid.

The elections watchdog has issued a statement slapping down a Conservative party effort to have the votes annulled.

Elections Canada agrees the special balloting at the university was not pre-authorized before the election campaign, as it should have been.

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff called the effort to annul student votes an affront to democracy that is part of a pattern of abuses by the Tories.

He said it shows a lack of respect for the process.

And NDP Leader Jack Layton called for an investigation.

“This kind of intimidation and harassment is wrong,†Layton said. “Of course everybody should follow the rules. But what are the Conservatives up to here?â€

But Prime Minister Stephen Harper said it’s simply a matter of making sure the election rules are followed.

Arthur Hamilton, the lawyer for the Conservative party, wrote to Elections Canada on Thursday saying there were irregularities in the way a special ballot station was run on the campus.

The Tories said in a statement that the elections overseer replied that the poll wasn’t sanctioned.

“The real issue was not the denial of procedural fairness at a legally authorized poll, but the fact that the poll was not authorized at all,†the party said in a statement.

“Pierre Boutet of Elections Canada informed our legal counsel that the Guelph poll was not authorized by Elections Canada. Given the admission that the local returning officer acted without authority, we leave it to Elections Canada to enforce the rules and uphold the law.â€

“Our sole concern is that all the rules be followed,†Harper said during a campaign stop north of Toronto.

However, Elections Canada says all information at its disposal indicates the proceedings were above board.

Students at the university say a Tory organizer even tried to grab the ballot box at one point, but the party’s statement said none of its workers or volunteers made any effort to interfere at the poll.

“The outlandish and unfounded claims being spread on the internet are the product of desperation, and are most regrettable,†the statement said.

Ignatieff, however, said he was disturbed by the reports.

“This is part of a pattern and Canadians need to know it’s worrying. I just, I can’t believe it,†Ignatieff said at a campaign news conference.

He said it fits with Harper’s efforts to screen audiences at his campaign events.

Trying to cancel votes at a university flies in the face of efforts to increase the turnout among young voters, Ignatieff said.

“A politician has two loyalties here: a loyalty to his party and a loyalty to the democratic system. I’d like to see some loyalty to the democratic system from the prime minister.â€

Harper said he supports efforts to get out the vote: “We are all concerned about the gradual fall we’re seeing in voting rates.â€

The Guelph students, who inspired the “vote mobs†in videos posted on YouTube, said the poll was organized correctly, with a Conservative scrutineer on hand.

Hamilton’s letter said campaign material was present at the polling station, which is prohibited.

But students say election officials removed partisan leaflets and flyers as people came in to vote.

Yvonne Su, 21, a student who organized the vote mob at the university earlier this month to encourage her peers to votes, said she is shocked.

The vote mob movement has spread to other universities across Canada and is likely in part responsible for the large turnout seen at the special polling station at the university. The students say more than 700 people voted there.

Considering all her efforts to improve the dismal voting record of young people in Canada — just 37 per cent of Canadians aged 18 to 24 cast a ballot in 2008 — Su said she is upset with the Conservatives.

“We were all very disappointed about how they handled it,†she said. “A lot of us just felt disrespected as voters and as young people.â€
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/l...ersity-of-guelph-rejected-by-elections-canada
 
I can't vote for the Liberals. Bob Rae is my local candidate and voting him out of the premier's office was one of my key motivators for obtaining Canadian citizenship back in the 1990s. Problem with the Liberals is that you don't know what you're going to get, too much flip flopping. At least with the Dippers and Cons you know what you're going to get. The lack of predictability will hurt the Liberal's chances.

Well, the NDP doesn't do much flip-flopping because they've never really held power.

The Conservatives have flip-flopped dozens of times since taking office. Are you just not paying attention? Practically their first act upon taking office in 2006 was a flip flop by appointing a party hack to the Senate (first flip flop) and then appointed this unelected dude to Cabinet (second). Michael Fortier if you want to dig. At the same time, they induced just-re-elected Liberal David Emerson to switch parties by offering him a cabinet position, which scant few months before they derided the Liberals for doing in bringing over Belinda Stronach. And these are just some of the flip flops from the first few weeks.

In all, the Conservatives are as cynical and craven as the Liberals. Maybe Reform was principled, but the Harper Conservatives have abandoned any pretense of principle upon taking office.
 
To be fair Harper has revived a party that had been completely annihilated, leading it to power and holding on to it through the longest minority. Who could blame him if some deals with the devil have been made or if he 'pushes' the rules shrewdly? Think of him what you will but Harper is one smart and resourceful dude. The alternatives look like buffoons in comparison.
 
To be fair Harper has revived a party that had been completely annihilated, leading it to power and holding on to it through the longest minority. Who could blame him if some deals with the devil have been made or if he 'pushes' the rules shrewdly? Think of him what you will but Harper is one smart and resourceful dude. The alternatives look like buffoons in comparison.

To be fair, Harper did no such thing as revive a party . He rebranded a party in his crabbedl image . " Smart and resourceful " ? To what bloody end ?
 
To be fair Harper has revived a party that had been completely annihilated, leading it to power and holding on to it through the longest minority.

...by lying, cheating, and breaking the law....we'd all be as 'successful' as Harper if we could use his rulebook.
This is really nothing to brag about....
 
To be fair Harper has revived a party that had been completely annihilated, leading it to power and holding on to it through the longest minority. Who could blame him if some deals with the devil have been made or if he 'pushes' the rules shrewdly? Think of him what you will but Harper is one smart and resourceful dude. The alternatives look like buffoons in comparison.

Is there a point where his wearing down of our institutions becomes a problem?

What happens when the guy you don't like gains power, and Harper has lowered the bar on accountability and checks on the power of the executive? Conservatives seem damned short-sighted, especially since the nature political tendency of Canada is centre-left government. They will be howling for 12-15 years whenever the Liberals finally do replace the CPC and he's paved the way for them to get away with murder.
 
He's had minority governments. He could have been voted out at any time, no? If Harper hasn't been reigned in it is because of an ineffective opposition, a weak media and an apathetic population. I'm not a fan of what Harper has done but I do admire its 'resourcefulness'. You talk about him 'wearing down' our institutions but hasn't he really just tested them? The institutions are not broken. They are still there and can be turned on Harper when the time is right. That time just doesn't seem to be now. People are willing to put up with Harper's games because the alternative seems worse. The fear-mongering of the Liberals is falling on deaf ears.... and lets face it, in the eyes of many Canadians the opposition fear-mongering has been a bit of a case of crying wolf: Harper has been portrayed by the opposition as evil for years, as a Nazi/religious zealot/homophobe/destroyer of social policies, and now they want to add despoiler of democracy? People just aren't buying it.

... and to be clear I do see through Harper. It is partly because I do see through him that I can admire what he is doing even if I don't like it.
 
Is it that impressive that he's barely managed to get hold of power and keep it, given that he is willing to go to any length to stay there. Sorry, I can't admire people who go to any length to achieve their goal. In the extreme, it's like admiring Lenin's charisma and ruthlessness in killing millions of his citizens.
 
Come on, Harper as Lenin? Really? Seems more than a little overwrought to me.

Look, all politicians do what they can to get and hold on to power. Some just do it better than others... and yes, it is possible to 'admire' somebody's skills or achievements without supporting them or agreeing with them. I think that Layton is an extremely talented and shrewd showman but I could never see myself voting for him. I think he'd destroy Canada more soundly than the Conservatives ever could. I'm glad he's there though and I'm glad for his influence on the other parties.
 
Come on, Harper as Lenin? Really? Seems more than a little overwrought to me.

Look, all politicians do what they can to get and hold on to power. Some just do it better than others... and yes, it is possible to 'admire' somebody's skills or achievements without supporting them or agreeing with them. I think that Layton is an extremely talented and shrewd showman but I could never see myself voting for him. I think he'd destroy Canada more soundly than the Conservatives ever could. I'm glad he's there though and I'm glad for his influence on the other parties.

The only thing good I can say about Jack Layton is that he has great posture. Have you seen the way he poses for interviews? He thinks so highly of himself. Having the NDP in power would be a nightmare. Wasn't it Bob Rae that cut the amount of medical students in Ontario? To tell you the truth I'd rather pay for healthcare. Social healthcare isn't as great as it sounds. Due to our current system, waiting time to see a doctor is ridiculous. That's why our emergency rooms are filled with people that don't even need to be there. If you had to pay, you'd only see a doctor when it's a real emergency, which would get rid of the clutter. I recently had a couple of appointments at St. Mike's. The first one I waited for 2 hours, the second appointment I had to wait 3 and a half hours. That is sheer ludicrous.
 
The only thing good I can say about Jack Layton is that he has great posture. Have you seen the way he poses for interviews? He thinks so highly of himself. Having the NDP in power would be a nightmare. Wasn't it Bob Rae that cut the amount of medical students in Ontario? To tell you the truth I'd rather pay for healthcare. Social healthcare isn't as great as it sounds. Due to our current system, waiting time to see a doctor is ridiculous. That's why our emergency rooms are filled with people that don't even need to be there. If you had to pay, you'd only see a doctor when it's a real emergency, which would get rid of the clutter. I recently had a couple of appointments at St. Mike's. The first one I waited for 2 hours, the second appointment I had to wait 3 and a half hours. That is sheer ludicrous.

you're condemning layton for rae's actions? also, you're condemning a current fedral party for the actions of a past provincial government?

by the polling numbers, the ndp is first in quebec. they are desolving seperatism and increasing the unity of the nation and they're not even in power. maybe it's a nightmare for the bloc, but not for canada.
 
Come on, Harper as Lenin? Really? Seems more than a little overwrought to me.

Look, all politicians do what they can to get and hold on to power. Some just do it better than others... and yes, it is possible to 'admire' somebody's skills or achievements without supporting them or agreeing with them. I think that Layton is an extremely talented and shrewd showman but I could never see myself voting for him. I think he'd destroy Canada more soundly than the Conservatives ever could. I'm glad he's there though and I'm glad for his influence on the other parties.

In my defense, you didn't read what I wrote. I very carefully used the clause 'in the extreme', clearly indicating that I acknowledged and explicitly stated that it was an extreme example.

I don't admire people who use talents to cause harm to others or society. You can acknowledge the talent, but I don't admire it.
 
... and to be clear, neither do I. As you acknowledge, your idea that Harper causes 'harm' is extreme and uncompromising, and smacks of political posturing quite frankly. I'm concerned that this sort of American-style hyperbole has seeped into the Canadian political landscape in latter years, where such polarization and staunch partisanship truly does do more harm to Canada and Canadians trying to make informed, reasonable decisions.
 
In my defense, you didn't read what I wrote. I very carefully used the clause 'in the extreme', clearly indicating that I acknowledged and explicitly stated that it was an extreme example.

I don't admire people who use talents to cause harm to others or society. You can acknowledge the talent, but I don't admire it.

But I can admire your rhetorical device afransen! As in...Sorry, but I can't admire NDP politicians who want to expand the size and cost of the state and reduce individual freedom. In the extreme Layton's policies are no different from Soviet totalitarianism.
 

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