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how long until toronto surpasses chicago on skyscrapers?

Great Segway to my question that I was about to post. We all have opinions of our city. However I wonder what visitors think of our city?! I have not heard any feedback.
I read one Berliner say... " a lot of bland buildings everywhere" .
 
Great Segway to my question that I was about to post. We all have opinions of our city. However I wonder what visitors think of our city?! I have not heard any feedback.
I read one Berliner say... " a lot of bland buildings everywhere" .

I've hosted scores of visitors from out of town (mostly from Europe and the US), and have found their feedback very interesting (and diverse), and there's actually quite a bit of recent, travel-focused, non-Canadian media talking about Toronto if you want to poke around for it. Here are some common themes among my visitors:

- Amazement with the calibre and diversity of our food scene, both in terms of "cool", yuppie/hipster-ish locales and in terms of "less flashy" ethnic cuisine. I've had people from Paris, New York, Chicago, and London marvel at the quality of bars and restaurants in Toronto. The New York Times also has two recent-ish features looking at the city's ethnic cuisine that are worth reading. A recent Guardian article had a similar focus.
- Disbelief with the overall cleanliness of the city despite its size (most people, in my experience, equate "Toronto's population" with that of the GTA, so more than 6 million). One of my visitors reiterated what I think was a line from 30 Rock: "Toronto - it's like New York run by the Swiss", which I find rings true in more ways than one.
- Love of the diverse nature of our neighbourhoods, thinking not about multicultural diversity, but about the sheer number of "different" neighbourhoods all packed so tightly together - think Kensington beside Chinatown beside U of T St. George beside Annex beside Yorkville beside Church/Village beside Yonge beside Financial beside Waterfront, and so on and so on. There's really a massive difference in a lot of different elements as you progress through that one half day's walk. They think it's pretty cool. And, to that end, I've had Americans express jealousy at the fact that those such neighbourhoods (along with many others, obviously) are right in the downtown core, rather than relegated out as inner suburbs as is the case in so much of America. And Europeans express surprise that Canada isn't like the States in that regard.
- Confusion over the fact that "there seems not to be a centre of the city." They're looking for a Times Square or a Ramblas or a Trafalgar Square and find it difficult to get oriented as a tourist.
- Love of the massive and impressive collection of Victorian single family homes right in the core.
- Distaste for the general blandness of the contemporary architecture ("the skyline is Dallas-sur-Lac, said one visitor"), to a few of the comments expressed on this thread. Opinions change a bit if I take them to, say, the ROM, AGO, Aga Khan, past Picasso on Richmond
- Admiration of Nathan Phillips Square. Everyone loves the Toronto sign and thinks City Hall is neat and looks like a building from the future. The sign is the one thing that some of them have seen before if it's their first time in the city (other than the CN Tower). Shame on our selectively penny-pinching councillors for not realizing the branding value of it.
- Love of the some of the most heavily trafficked pedestrian areas, notably Kensington, Yorkville, the Waterfront, King West, St. Lawrence, Trinity Bellwoods, Bloor West, etc. They feel the city is alive in those places and a bit soulless in many others (which is true of many cities, but also a good reminder that people don't connect with dead areas with lots of cars, or devoid of transit/pedestrians - let's get that King priority corridor built, permanently pedestrianize Kensington, and make some significant public realm improvements to Yonge St. south of Bloor).
- Discussion of Drake and Justin Bieber/Ryan Gosling (both of whom they assume are from Toronto).

And I could go on, but those are some of the most consistent impressions I hear from first-timers.
 
had lunch with someone from Vancouver and they thought Toronto was ugly not because of its cheap condos but because of its historic buildings made up of brick that you see on queen street, king street and pretty much all of downtown. He thought it would be much nicer when things were torn down and new things were put up like in Vancouver. Awesome!
 
had lunch with someone from Vancouver and they thought Toronto was ugly not because of its cheap condos but because of its historic buildings made up of brick that you see on queen street, king street and pretty much all of downtown. He thought it would be much nicer when things were torn down and new things were put up like in Vancouver. Awesome!

^ Also serves as a regular reminder that architecture critique is highly subjective and doesn't make or break a city or define its worth.
 
I've hosted scores of visitors from out of town (mostly from Europe and the US), and have found their feedback very interesting (and diverse), and there's actually quite a bit of recent, travel-focused, non-Canadian media talking about Toronto if you want to poke around for it. Here are some common themes among my visitors:

Thank you for showing this great city to your visitors, beyond just the usual tourist traps.
 
had lunch with someone from Vancouver and they thought Toronto was ugly not because of its cheap condos but because of its historic buildings made up of brick that you see on queen street, king street and pretty much all of downtown. He thought it would be much nicer when things were torn down and new things were put up like in Vancouver. Awesome!

Yes, condo investors would love if we got rid of all traces of Victorian Toronto. Thankfully a lot of this stuff is protected and they won't get their way.

Did he want Gastown to be bulldozed and rebuilt with grey glass condos? People are nutbars.
 
That was very constructive and informative ADRM. Thank you.
You mentioned non Canadian media talking about Toronto. Were u referring to the New York Times or there are other articles out there.
I typically google "Toronto tourism ". How do u search for those articles?
 
and just feels a lot more substantial, consequential and wealthy. over the past 20 years, toronto has undergone a construction boom unrivaled anywhere in north america, but chicago still has a lot more buildings and they've a pretty impressive boom there too.
.

The construction boom in Toronto (Vancouver can be included in the conversation) is no doubt impressive, and has brought with it energy and economic activity to our city. However, as good as it looks to see so many cranes and new condos on our skyline, beneath the surface, there are serious questions that need to be asked about what is being built and who is actually buying them. The city has been plagued with the 'glass condo building', which shouldn't necessarily have a negative connotation attached to it, but it does, at least in this city. Despite the vast number of buildings being built, people have begun to evaluate their quality and architectural value. Foreign ownership and investment has been a blessing and a curse.

While it's true that many of our quantity of tall buildings are beginning to approach that of Chicago, I don't see many of our proposed 200m+ condo towers rivalling that of anything in Chicago in their height category. There are exceptions, like
Mirvish + Gehry for example, but the vast majority of them seem to be coming from more of the sameness, where quantity has not translated into quality.
 
had lunch with someone from Vancouver and they thought Toronto was ugly not because of its cheap condos but because of its historic buildings made up of brick that you see on queen street, king street and pretty much all of downtown. He thought it would be much nicer when things were torn down and new things were put up like in Vancouver. Awesome!

Maybe it is not because the existence of those buildings, but rather their conditions? I am not proud of how many of those historic buildings look on Queen and Yonge for example. An old brick building is not automatically beautiful.


It is starting and there is a long way to catch.
Manhattan has 112 buildings over 600 feet. We have 23. Manhattan's tallest building was completed in 2014, our was completed in 1976.
 
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Manhattan's tallest building was completed in 2014, our was completed in 1976.

Yes because it (WTC) replaced the previous one (WTC) that was knocked down in 2001. Otherwise the tallest building in Manhattan would have been completed in 1973 (also WTC)
 
Most of our concerns are around design excellence and lack of grand public spaces in Toronto. There were early plans to do something special, such as bookending avenues with public squares (Clarence Square and Victoria Memorial Park are examples). There were attempts at grand terminuses on major streets: Queens Park on University Ave., Spadina Cresent on Spadina Ave., St. Mary's Church on Adelaide. There were plans for a great Picadilly Circus-style roundabout at Queen St., Richmond St., and University Ave. Our one grand processional avenue (University) hasn't amounted to much. We have few places left to create grand public spaces in Toronto, apart from in the Port Lands and a handful of surface parking lots/brownfield sites. We better secure these sites before they're overrun with more mediocre condos. While I think Toronto should embrace its identity as a city of Victorian neighborhoods and industrial warehouses overlaid with modern architecture, we really need to enhance these aspects of the city's image. Too often we resort to token facadism or outright blockbusting. Think of Montreal's beautiful architecture and many great public spaces: Place D'Armes, Dorchester Square, Victoria Square, Square Saint-Louis, etc. Savannah, a city of under 200,000 people abounds in beautiful squares with fountains, gardens, and outdoor furniture. I realize these are older cities with very different contexts, but Toronto's public spaces should be more beautiful and surrounded by buildings of high design. We also need far more of them. There's a huge opportunity in the Port Lands to create a true waterfront city with public space on the scale of a Mount Royal or Central Park, but we're tinkering at the edges with plans to keep a form of elevated Gardiner Expressway east of Jarvis St. We could finally have that monumental boulevard east of Yonge St. as our gateway to the Port Lands if our city council would make it a priority. I also hope we'll get some iconic architecture on the waterfront, even if it's starchitecture. Toronto needs a Bilbao Effect.
 
That was very constructive and informative ADRM. Thank you.
You mentioned non Canadian media talking about Toronto. Were u referring to the New York Times or there are other articles out there.
I typically google "Toronto tourism ". How do u search for those articles?

There's been a bunch recently. Try terms like "Vogue Toronto"/"New York Times Travel Toronto"/"Guardian Toronto", etc. Also, when you're looking at the Google search results, look at both the main search results and those under the "News" tabs - that'll sometimes net you out tourism/travel results more easily.
 
Most of our concerns are around design excellence and lack of grand public spaces in Toronto.

Pretty much sums it up for me when comparing Toronto with Chicago. It really doesn't matter to me if we have more skyscrapers, as most of them are pretty bland. We are also giving up a lot of waterfront space for them too, which for me is not a good thing, but YMMV.

The good news is that there are some interesting projects happening in Toronto, and so I do think Toronto architecture is slowly getting better. But for now, I don't get the sense of awe as I do when I consider the Chicago skyline.
 
Pretty much sums it up for me when comparing Toronto with Chicago. It really doesn't matter to me if we have more skyscrapers, as most of them are pretty bland. We are also giving up a lot of waterfront space for them too, which for me is not a good thing, but YMMV.

The good news is that there are some interesting projects happening in Toronto, and so I do think Toronto architecture is slowly getting better. But for now, I don't get the sense of awe as I do when I consider the Chicago skyline.

What recently completed or in-progress skyscrapers has the city "given waterfront space to"?
 

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