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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

CapitalSeven said:
Countless hectares? I did the math once and it was about a square mile. Countless by conservative political math.
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Isn't that over 250 hectares. That's quite a high number to count to.
If I had to guess, I would put it at 20m wide and 300km long = 600 ha. The entire corridor needs ditches and embankments slopes as well.
 
BurlOak said:
Isn't that over 250 hectares. That's quite a high number to count to.
If I had to guess, I would put it at 20m wide and 300km long = 600 ha. The entire corridor needs ditches and embankments slopes as well.
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Nitpick - Only the Kitchener- London segment required large amounts of new land. So more like 100 kms. There were some small segments of new track west of London, and the rest was abandoned ROW (that may have reverted to farmland in places),

The need for more for embankments etc probably nets out against whatever proportion of the alignment consists of land not used for agriculture.

All the same, existing ROW’s can likely handle much of the true need without the new alignment.

- Paul
 
holographic plastic said:
This news should come as no surprise under this provincial government.
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There are 3 senior Ministers all directly impacted by this proposal and all 3 are probably very happy it was cancelled.

Ernie Hardeman - Oxford - Minister of Agriculture
Monte McNaughton - Lambton - Minister of Infrastructure
Jeff Yurek - Elgin - Minister of Transportation
 
Interesting hints at alternatives:

The Doug Ford government stopped capital funding for the project in Thursday’s budget.

But, it also promised to review the existing rail corridor and busing options to southwestern Ontario over the summer.

Transportation Minister, and Elgin-Middlesex-London MPP, Jeff Yurek says a report with concrete plans will be issued this fall.
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Pressed by CTV News, he stated an expanded GO Transit rail service to the Forest City is not out of the question, but cautions that expanded VIA Rail service is more likely.

“We're transforming GO Transit into more than just a regional service. We now have GO going to Niagara and Kitchener, so that's never off the table, but the immediate conversations are with VIA and CN."
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london.ctvnews.ca

No high-speed rail funding in Ontario budget, so what's next?

With high-speed rail from Toronto to London on 'pause,' what, if anything, is coming to our region to move people?
london.ctvnews.ca
Ontario announced Thursday that it is instead "actively exploring opportunities to enhance the train speeds and service levels on existing railway corridors," as well as inter-city bus services in the region.
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Last edited:
Wasn't sure if this should go in the VIA thread or the HSR thread, so I'll add it to both.

The 2019 budget and a conversation I had at the lockdown have added some clarity to the SW ON rail/bus situation.

Here is what the budget says on page 73 (in summary);
  • Will examine options for improved connection between London, KW and Toronto to spur economic activity by improving mobility and travel reliability. Practical options for improvements to existing rail corridors in collaboration with private sector partners to optimize passenger and freight rail. Also will include improvements to highway network and inter-community bus service. Will consult with affected municipalities.
  • Province has paused capital funding for HSR and is actively exploring opportunities to enhance train speeds and service levels on existing railway corridors, as well as opportunities for inter-community bus services or other transit solutions that better support the immediate needs of SW On
  • Province is completing an analysis of new and existing rail service options that consider the various impacts to area stakeholders
  • Province has listened to the residents in SW On about the concerns with HSR
  • Province will bring forward a transportation plan for SW On by fall, 2019
All in all, it looks like just what we hoped for.

I decided to submit a written question at the lockdown – basically that I loved all this and wondered if the Province has been consulting with the Feds or VIA. A Senior Policy Advisor for the Premier came by to answer. I was pleased how informed he was on the topic. He indicated
  • Province has been dealing with senior VIA leadership. VIA made a proposal to them. This was a surprise to me and contradicts what VIA told us last week. He wouldn’t reveal any more details.
  • He mentioned that the other part of the calculus is CN and CP carefully guard their capacity (of course, we know this, but I was pleased that he did also)
  • I reminded him that we need federal cooperation and money, as intercity rail is their responsibility. He agreed
We need to discuss next steps.
Peter Miasek, Transport Action
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hw621 said:
A concrete plan to cancel the plan...
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…………..and that's a good thing. This was a plan written on a napkin and never made any sense or cents. London/Windsor need high-speed connections but not at any price. KW can be easily served by GO Express trains and keep London for true Corridor fast rail. The Corridor is a regional link and should only have stops at Win/Lon/Tor/Ott/Mon/QC with maybe stops at Kingston and TR on certain routes.
 
"We promise to do something later."

Southwest Ontario isn't getting anything. The lack of development will seriously harm Waterloo's growth as a Tech centre. And the rest of SWO will continue its slowly evolution into an aging rust belt.

Wynne deserves as much blame here as Ford. She used HSR as an election prop and was never sincere about it. Ford is simply putting a new spin on that strategy by promising something in another term a long time away.
 
We really should be starting with Toronto to Montreal/Ottawa. After that becomes a success (because I really do think it would), we could then expand further (Quebec City, London, Windsor, etc.).

Even the GTAA should be pushing for this. As it would allow them to delay expansion as it would free up gates.
 
narduch said:
We really should be starting with Toronto to Montreal/Ottawa. After that becomes a success (because I really do think it would), we could then expand further (Quebec City, London, Windsor, etc.).

Even the GTAA should be pushing for this. As it would allow them to delay expansion as it would free up gates.
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Not happening...
 
kEiThZ said:
"We promise to do something later."

Southwest Ontario isn't getting anything. The lack of development will seriously harm Waterloo's growth as a Tech centre. And the rest of SWO will continue its slowly evolution into an aging rust belt.

Wynne deserves as much blame here as Ford. She used HSR as an election prop and was never sincere about it. Ford is simply putting a new spin on that strategy by promising something in another term a long time away.
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Accelerating the decline of London. I think Kitchener-Waterloo will be fine with 2WAD (probably will be diesel at this point.) London is the place that will take the big hit here.
 
Allandale25 said:
Wasn't sure if this should go in the VIA thread or the HSR thread, so I'll add it to both.
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Honestly, a VIA HFR type of solution for Toronto-Kitchener-London would be good enough, and far less expensive. Even getting travel times down to 2 hrs for London and 1 hr for Kitchener with consistent hourly service would be huge for the region.

I am not sure this government is sincere about actually building something here though.
 
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