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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

I'd imagine a lot of travellers from KW/Guelph are destined for locations in Brampton/Peel Region. Connecting with the LRT seems reasonable. Like everyone's saying, I doubt this HSR will be some kind of TGV line. The impact on route speed of adding a station in Brampton wouldn't be huge. Brampton alone, let alone Peel, would be larger than any other city on the route (save TO..).
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Actually, the more proper analogy in this case would be having GO as it is now stop at every arterial crossing just because it "adds to network connectivity".

AoD
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That's a great idea! That's like the entire point behind S-bahnification, to improve connectivity between GO and local transit. Doubling the number of GO stations would make total sense for this exact reason.

(assuming those crossings have reasonably busy surface transit routes..)
 
diminutive said:
That's a great idea! That's like the entire point behind S-bahnification, to improve connectivity between GO and local transit. Doubling the number of GO stations would make total sense for this exact reason.

(assuming those crossings have reasonably busy surface transit routes..)
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Yeah, that's IF it is being S-bahned (which will basically convert it into a different mode). Try doing that with the current diesel engines.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Making what is arguably a bad decision with one line doesn't mean we should make another bad decision on another.
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but what I asked you was why you thought a 20-25 minute bus ride was better than a 6-10 minute train ride (which is what I thought you and/or Shontron said).
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Yeah, that's IF it is being S-bahned (which will basically convert it into a different mode). Try doing that with the current diesel engines.

AoD
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But aren't we talking about a new(ish) mode with this London HSR? Obviously details are sparse at this point, but I think it's unlikely "HSR" will translate into diesel locomotives hauling 12 bilevels.

If you have a relatively modern EMU, or probably even DMUs, the time penalty from stopping in Brampton wouldn't be very large and you'd serve a City which is supposed to be ~750k ppl (+jobs...) by 2030.

This seems like a no brainer. Even if it added 15mins to a London-Union trip, so what?
 
TOareaFan said:
Actually I can add a bit of conceptual thought to that. I was at a breakfast seminar this morning that had two speakers. Glenn Murray and Kathy Haley.

Neither of them spoke specifically to your question but if we stitch together a few of their comments then it may shed some insight.

- Minister Murray very firmly stated that this HSR "is coming" (he was inspired by a ride on HS1 and a bit stunned when people told him there that it is 100% Canadian owned)
- Based on the knowledge that it is 100% Canadian owned he is going to be working with people to attract private investment in the line.
- There seems no doubt that it will be going into the airport. He told us he jokes with GTAA folks that 'terminal 2 will be less an aircraft terminal than a rail terminal" (note: I don't know if his continual use of "terminal 2" language indicates some future new development or a lack or knowledge of the airport or just a repeated casual slip...but I have no doubt he said "2')
- One of the main purposes of this line is to give the communities of London and KW "their own international airport"

Ms Haley did not speak of this line specifically (her talk was to update the audience on the UP Express) but one question from the floor specifically asked her is there any thought to using the newly built spur to provide access to the airport from other cities like "Kitchener and Hamilton"....I was really hoping she would answer with "the first challenge would be getting a train from Hamilton anywhere near the spur" but I guess she is less of a sarcastic jerk than me and she said "we are having ongoing talks with the ministry about how the plans Mr Murray spoke to you work with the UP" (note: throughout her talk she seemed to be really pushing the marketing idea of just referring to the UPX as "up".
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I don't know why Murray keeps on making detailed statements like this, there as really been no planning or assessments done and just no way to know what will happen, if anything even does.
 
Voltz said:
I don't know why Murray keeps on making detailed statements like this, there as really been no planning or assessments done and just no way to know what will happen, if anything even does.
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You know, that may kinda be the point. He can say anything he wants at the moment, try to drum up publicity for a few months

Then they'll be able to drum up publicity by announcing the study.

Then the study will say whatever (if it contradicts Murray NBD, since his statements were preliminary), which will be used to drum up publicity.

There'll probably need to be some community consultation (more publicity).

They'll probably ask for public funding from Ottawa a few times (more publicity, esp if Ottawa rejects; then QP is standing up against mean Harper).

This'll drag on for a few years, a new Premier will come in, then the process will get started over again.

It's like the HSR study. You can get 80% of the political utility of building the HSR by simply announcing that it's your intent with almost none of the costs. And it allows everyone to project their own dreams of what an HSR could be onto the vagueness.
 
I would imagine that whatever operator ends up running this new HSR line would likely duplicate the type of service that VIA already offers on many of it's QC-W corridors. They have a certain number of "express trains" that do Ottawa-Toronto, Montreal-Toronto, Montreal-Ottawa directly, with no stops in between, and other trains that make the milk run stops.

If they run 10 trains a day (just a ballpark, and because the math is easier), what they could do is run 5 express trains, 5 local trains. Express trains would stop at: London, Kitchener, Pearson, Union. Local trains would stop at: London, Stratford, Kitchener, Guelph, Brampton, Pearson, Union.

The demand in those "local" cities would likely be significantly less than in the "express" cities, but I think that serving them with every 2nd trip or so would be worthwhile.

The other option too is incorporating the local service into what I've called (for the purpose of briefness, but also because it sounds good) SOGO (Southern Ontario GO). It would run current GO diesel stock to places like London, Brantford, Niagara Falls, Peterborough, and maybe as far as Kingston. The idea is that it would run local until it hits the end of or near the end of the GO REX lines (Aldershot, Mt. Pleasant, Oshawa), and then run semi-express to Union, stopping at only major transfer points.

This would end up creating a 3 layers of rail service: GO REX for the GTHA, SOGO for the area within 2hrs of the GTHA, and HSR for intercity trips greater than 2hrs away (by car). Nobody gets 'left out', but most people get the type of service that is most convenient for them.
 
I can't imagine only 10 trains a day, the existing via service is already at 7 or 8. What I can imagine is hourly service for both local and express., meaning closer to 36 daily trains.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I can't imagine only 10 trains a day, the existing via service is already at 7 or 8. What I can imagine is hourly service for both local and express., meaning closer to 36 daily trains.
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True. Pick a number then, I just used 10 because it was a round number. My point is equally illustrated with 10 trips a day or 40. I was also doing my math on 10 trips per direction, I just forgot to specify that. My bad.
 
gweed123 said:
The other option too is incorporating the local service into what I've called (for the purpose of briefness, but also because it sounds good) SOGO (Southern Ontario GO). It would run current GO diesel stock to places like London, Brantford, Niagara Falls, Peterborough, and maybe as far as Kingston. The idea is that it would run local until it hits the end of or near the end of the GO REX lines (Aldershot, Mt. Pleasant, Oshawa), and then run semi-express to Union, stopping at only major transfer points.
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The diesel locomotives have a lot of life in them still, but so do most of the bilevel coaches. The problem is that the bilevel coaches aren't bad for short-haul commutes but aren't ideal for runs longer than one hour. When full, there's nowhere to comfortably put your legs, feet and light baggage. The lighting is harsh and the deep tinted windows are useless at night. (GO buses are far more comfortable.) Dimmer lights and reading lamps are used to make night train and bus travel much more comfortable. Refurbishment of the interiors, including new seating arrangements and new lighting are crucial.
 
ShonTron said:
The diesel locomotives have a lot of life in them still, but so do most of the bilevel coaches. The problem is that the bilevel coaches aren't bad for short-haul commutes but aren't ideal for runs longer than one hour. When full, there's nowhere to comfortably put your legs, feet and light baggage. The lighting is harsh and the deep tinted windows are useless at night. (GO buses are far more comfortable.) Dimmer lights and reading lamps are used to make night train and bus travel much more comfortable. Refurbishment of the interiors, including new seating arrangements and new lighting are crucial.
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That's a good point. The bi-levels may have to be re-arranged in a more VIA-like setup, with all seats facing forward, and other amenities added in order to make the ~2hr trips from London/Niagara Falls/Kingston to Union.
 
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