High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

[innsertnamehere]

Pretty much how I feel.....except I would tilt to the opposition side of it if the cost of doing this and subsidizing it means sacrificing some other projects that have a greater need.

I wonder if this is in there to make use of the "non-GTHA" funds. This has the potential to be expensive and since it is designed to serve London and KW it may get a disproportionate share of the "non-GTHA" pot of money even though it ends up in Toronto.

The HSR is almost certianly non gta funds. There will be relatively little work in the actual city of Toronto as i doubt they will be making major modifications to Georgetown south.

 

[Adjei]

What about the connection at the airport?

 

[gweed123]

The HSR is almost certianly non gta funds. There will be relatively little work in the actual city of Toronto as i doubt they will be making major modifications to Georgetown south.

I'm still trying to figure out how they're going to cram all of those tracks through Brampton. That's going to be a challenge.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm still trying to figure out how they're going to cram all of those tracks through Brampton. That's going to be a challenge.

the 3rd track that we were told was necessary just to run hourly off peak GO was gonna be a challenge....surely those London-Toronto trains whizzing by at 200kph combined with the GO trains every 15 minutes and the odd freight train (and VIA if it still exists) would need more than 3?

Maybe that idea somone had of double decking a couple of tracks through DT Brampton makes some sense....afterall, if the express trains aren't going to stop there why have them pass through at platform level?

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Wonder what they're going to do about the section of track just west of Guelph Station (paralleling Kent Street) where the line pretty well runs in the front yards of the homes along the street. Right now the trains are forced to crawl through the section.

 

[ehlow]

Just wondering....wouldn't that industry, then, be even better served by the expansion of YKF and the diversion of some air travel there? I mean there seems to be a lot of discussion about the difference between the rail links between silicon valley and SF compared to KW and Toronto but not much discussion comparing the SJ airport with 8 million passengers a year and YKF at just over 100k.

I'll admit to not knowing a lot of about the tech industry in KW but I understand it is more in the W part than the K part....is that right? So is the industry better served by a 30-40 minute train ride from Pearson to K then finding their way to W or a flight right into W?

It's not just the airport though, it's also the connection to Toronto, and all that entails.

I personally think after reading Glen Murray's tweets and the articles that that the KW tech industry has been a significant influence on this project being announced.

I think that the KW tech industry wants better train service to both Toronto and the airport for:
-attracting & retaining talent. Either to recruit people who live or want to live in Toronto or as a selling point to convince people to move to KW (you can take the train to Toronto to do things you can't do it KW, like watch an NHL game or see a big music concert)
-connection to investors, the media industry, the finance industry, and the rest of the world. Having investors from Toronto or flying in people from your company's office in California is much more convenient. Many Canadian corporations have HQ in Toronto.

Anyways I'm sure Communitech or whoever can articulate it better than me, but if this does happen it would be a big win for KW.

 

[innsertnamehere]

thats pretty much it. cheap space and easy access to talent in K-W with easy access to the big city and its amenities in Toronto, most importantly including the airport.

 

[gweed123]

the 3rd track that we were told was necessary just to run hourly off peak GO was gonna be a challenge....surely those London-Toronto trains whizzing by at 200kph combined with the GO trains every 15 minutes and the odd freight train (and VIA if it still exists) would need more than 3?

Maybe that idea somone had of double decking a couple of tracks through DT Brampton makes some sense....afterall, if the express trains aren't going to stop there why have them pass through at platform level?

Yup, we were talking about that in the GO thread a few weeks ago, haha. It may become a necessity, either that or tunnel the express tracks through downtown Brampton, emerging on either side of downtown. Of course that would balloon the cost substantially.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yup, we were talking about that in the GO thread a few weeks ago, haha. It may become a necessity, either that or tunnel the express tracks through downtown Brampton, emerging on either side of downtown. Of course that would balloon the cost substantially.

Seems like an awful lot of money and effort to bypass a city that is nearly 600k today...designated as a place to grow...targeted at around 750k people and trying to develop the very downtown that all that would bypass.

 

[MisterF]

the 3rd track that we were told was necessary just to run hourly off peak GO was gonna be a challenge....surely those London-Toronto trains whizzing by at 200kph combined with the GO trains every 15 minutes and the odd freight train (and VIA if it still exists) would need more than 3?

Maybe that idea somone had of double decking a couple of tracks through DT Brampton makes some sense....afterall, if the express trains aren't going to stop there why have them pass through at platform level?

Something tells me the trains won't go through the heart of Brampton at 200 km/h. High speed rail lines slow down through urban areas quite often. Same with VIA and GO trains. Capacity could be increased through better coordination - separate agencies using the same tracks with an outdated signalling system is a recipe for inefficiency. We can fit a lot of trains on 3 tracks if we manage it the way they do in other parts of the world.

Wonder what they're going to do about the section of track just west of Guelph Station (paralleling Kent Street) where the line pretty well runs in the front yards of the homes along the street. Right now the trains are forced to crawl through the section.

They could probably speed them up a bit but through an urban area like that there's probably not much that can be done. A true TGV style 300 km/h line would likely bypass a city like Guelph altogether and have a station on the outskirts.

 

[innsertnamehere]

you could probable squeeze 4 tracks through brampton, maybe a few houses in a few places would have to go but it would be way cheaper than a tunnel. I would be more concerned with Guelph, especially if you have to fit more than 2 tracks through there. you would probably have to build a trench of some sort a la Weston.

I presume the speed limit would be 90mph until after Mt. Pleasant.

 

[TOareaFan]

Something tells me the trains won't go through the heart of Brampton at 200 km/h. High speed rail lines slow down through urban areas quite often. Same with VIA and GO trains. Capacity could be increased through better coordination - separate agencies using the same tracks with an outdated signalling system is a recipe for inefficiency. We can fit a lot of trains on 3 tracks if we manage it the way they do in other parts of the world.

Of course I was kidding about the whizzing by at 200kph......but I am certainly not kidding when I tell you that right up until the last 2 - 3 weeks Metrolinx were telling me directly that there is absolutely no way that GO could provide hourly off peak service with the current freight and VIA operations without building at least a 3rd track through Brampton. Surely that signalling and co-ordination are not things that have been invented in the past few weeks?

 

[TOareaFan]

you could probable squeeze 4 tracks through brampton, maybe a few houses in a few places would have to go but it would be way cheaper than a tunnel. I would be more concerned with Guelph, especially if you have to fit more than 2 tracks through there. you would probably have to build a trench of some sort a la Weston.

I presume the speed limit would be 90mph until after Mt. Pleasant.

Let the politics begin....."we need to tear down a few houses the historic core you are trying to develop so the trains from KW can get to Pearson in 30 - 40 minutes".......yikes...it'll be Weston all over again!

Kidding aside....I don't really see how you can get 4 tracks through there at all.

 

[dunkalunk]

Wonder what they're going to do about the section of track just west of Guelph Station (paralleling Kent Street) where the line pretty well runs in the front yards of the homes along the street. Right now the trains are forced to crawl through the section.

Probably the only option I see for Kent Street is to bulldoze the south side and trench it, not unlike Weston. I don't think the width of the road right of way can allow for much else. Guelph can probably get by having two tracks for a while, there's not nearly as much freight going through there as there is in Brampton.

Long-term, it would probably be more beneficial to just reroute CN's freight corridor down the 407 to meet up with the existing track north of Milton. Short term, I have no idea what the best option is.

 

[innsertnamehere]

you need around a 20 meter right of way to get 4 tracks through, and probably 30 meters at the station to fit in 2 platforms. to do that you would probably need to take down a lot of trees, and maybe, maybe these two buildings pictured. You would lose the train station as well but given its small size it can probably be fairly easily moved into the parking lot a bit further. It would be tight and you may have to one way a few of the roads going along the corridor, but it would fit.