High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

[innsertnamehere]

The Libs are polling well, well above the Tories right now. They are projecting some wins In the west, taking inner city ridings in Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton as well as essentially complete sweeps of Montreal and The GTA. It's pretty bleak federally for the conservatives right now. The liberals are especially dominating in Ontario right now, home of a huge portion of the countries ridings. According to the polls, if an election were held today the liberals would win a majority.

Also note that the provincial liberals are largely still leading in the polls, even if it is only by a small amount.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Anyways, back to the HSR thing - diminutive has a point though - London/KW/Toronto really doesn't make much sense as a standalone (beyond the political prop aspect), but it would be a logical start to a Windsor-Toronto-MTL line...something's up?

AoD

 

[TFC]

I see this "announcement" as being the precursor to GO/MX purchasing the Guelph Subdivision in its entirety, allowing them to upgrade the tracks and possibly double track the corridor. This may not necessarily result in true high speed rail, but it should cut travel times along the entire corridor, benefiting VIA Rail and GO (if they eventually serve London).

 

[dunkalunk]

I see this "announcement" as being the precursor to GO/MX purchasing the Guelph Subdivision in its entirety, allowing them to upgrade the tracks and possibly double track the corridor. This may not necessarily result in true high speed rail, but it should cut travel times along the entire corridor, benefiting VIA Rail and GO (if they eventually serve London).

It's my hope that VIA gets kicked off the north mainline completely and service to London is taken over by GO. I also feel that HSR should be run under GO or a new crown agency is created. VIA can still be the more comfortable way to travel, but you can take GO if you actually want to get somewhere fast.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I suspect that Metrolinx will create a secondary agency to run it, sort of like they are doing for the UPX which isn't under GO management.

 

[Filip]

I'm curious how this will fit into Pearson and the current UPX.

Will they tunnel a station underneath T1? Will there just be a stop on the mainline and the UPX will bring riders into the terminal area? So many questions..

 

[kEiThZ]

Anyways, back to the HSR thing - diminutive has a point though - London/KW/Toronto really doesn't make much sense as a standalone (beyond the political prop aspect), but it would be a logical start to a Windsor-Toronto-MTL line...something's up?

AoD

Not nomally one for vanity projects here. But there is a case to be made here for this project on the economic front. Right now, KW and it's high tech cluster is the only non-FIRE sector of this province's economy that's actually innovating and promising decent returns (even with the demise of BBRY). Connecting that cluster to Pearson is important to our economic interests, even if the project itself has no immediate breakeven. And if they're running the trains hourly? It won't cost that much to subsidize.

 

[kEiThZ]

I suspect that Metrolinx will create a secondary agency to run it, sort of like they are doing for the UPX which isn't under GO management.

Metrolinx would be better off just handing it to VIA to run.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's my hope that VIA gets kicked off the north mainline completely and service to London is taken over by GO. I also feel that HSR should be run under GO or a new crown agency is created. VIA can still be the more comfortable way to travel, but you can take GO if you actually want to get somewhere fast.

What wrong with VIA?

 

[innsertnamehere]

What wrong with VIA?

federally managed and has huge vulnerabilities due to its stupid level of subsidization. Despite a majority of their fares coming from the Corridor (southern Ontario), a huge portion of expenditures go to services outside of it. They have huge funding problems that aren't at the control of the provincial government, and the province wouldn't want to spend $3 or $4 billion on the corridor only to have the next federal government cut funding to VIA resulting in fare hikes and service cuts on their fancy new railroad.

 

[TOareaFan]

Not nomally one for vanity projects here. But there is a case to be made here for this project on the economic front. Right now, KW and it's high tech cluster is the only non-FIRE sector of this province's economy that's actually innovating and promising decent returns (even with the demise of BBRY). Connecting that cluster to Pearson is important to our economic interests, even if the project itself has no immediate breakeven.

Just wondering....wouldn't that industry, then, be even better served by the expansion of YKF and the diversion of some air travel there? I mean there seems to be a lot of discussion about the difference between the rail links between silicon valley and SF compared to KW and Toronto but not much discussion comparing the SJ airport with 8 million passengers a year and YKF at just over 100k.

I'll admit to not knowing a lot of about the tech industry in KW but I understand it is more in the W part than the K part....is that right? So is the industry better served by a 30-40 minute train ride from Pearson to K then finding their way to W or a flight right into W?

And if they're running the trains hourly? It won't cost that much to subsidize.

With respect, how can we possibly know that? Hourly trains cost what to operate? Ridership is, what? So subsidy is, again, what? As I type that sentence I realize it is a bit snarky sounding...that is not intended....but what is intended is to say that nothing we heard yesterday from the Premier or today from the MoT could possibly lead to any conclussion (one way or the other) with regards to subsidy levels.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Not nomally one for vanity projects here. But there is a case to be made here for this project on the economic front. Right now, KW and it's high tech cluster is the only non-FIRE sector of this province's economy that's actually innovating and promising decent returns (even with the demise of BBRY). Connecting that cluster to Pearson is important to our economic interests, even if the project itself has no immediate breakeven. And if they're running the trains hourly? It won't cost that much to subsidize.

Except I am not sure if the development of this sector in KW is sensitive to the presence/absence of HSR to Pearson. It's like someone saying that Markham is made or break on the basis of having what, 30 minute commute to Pearson. It isn't a bad idea to do it given the potential for system expansion further down the road (and everything got to start somewhere), but I am not entirely convinced about the standalone economic benefit as you have stated.

AoD

 

[DKsan]

Just wondering....wouldn't that industry, then, be even better served by the expansion of YKF and the diversion of some air travel there? I mean there seems to be a lot of discussion about the difference between the rail links between silicon valley and SF compared to KW and Toronto but not much discussion comparing the SJ airport with 8 million passengers a year and YKF at just over 100k.

I'll admit to not knowing a lot of about the tech industry in KW but I understand it is more in the W part than the K part....is that right? So is the industry better served by a 30-40 minute train ride from Pearson to K then finding their way to W or a flight right into W?
.

Eh. The University of Waterloo, where most of the talent learns, is Waterloo. The suburban office space, like OpenText, Blackberry, Afga, is mostly in Waterloo. But all downtown office space, where the Communitech Hub is, where many of the accelerators are, are in Kitchener. Google's new Kitchener office is a factory conversion that is right adjacent to the Kitchener Line, and where the new Kitchener Intermodal Hub will be.

There's basically an even split at this point.

 

[TOareaFan]

Except I am not sure if the development of this sector in KW is sensitive to the presence/absence of HSR to Pearson. It's like someone saying that Markham is made or break on the basis of having what, 30 minute commute to Pearson. It isn't a bad idea to do it given the potential for system expansion further down the road (and everything got to start somewhere), but I am not entirely convinced about the standalone economic benefit as you have stated.

AoD

Pretty much how I feel.....except I would tilt to the opposition side of it if the cost of doing this and subsidizing it means sacrificing some other projects that have a greater need.

I wonder if this is in there to make use of the "non-GTHA" funds. This has the potential to be expensive and since it is designed to serve London and KW it may get a disproportionate share of the "non-GTHA" pot of money even though it ends up in Toronto.

 

[TFC]

Eh. The University of Waterloo, where most of the talent learns, is Waterloo. The suburban office space, like OpenText, Blackberry, Afga, is mostly in Waterloo. But all downtown office space, where the Communitech Hub is, where many of the accelerators are, are in Kitchener. Google's new Kitchener office is a factory conversion that is right adjacent to the Kitchener Line, and where the new Kitchener Intermodal Hub will be.

There's basically an even split at this point.

I think this is fairly accurate. There has been a shift away from Waterloo and into Kitchener for some tech companies, but the more established firms like OpenText and BlackBerry remain in Waterloo. On that note, Google and Desire2Learn (not the smallest players on the block) are both expanding their presence downtown, with Google moving to the Breithaupt Block and D2L expanding in the Tannery.
The growth momentum is clearly in downtown Kitchener, with companies leaving the amenity-free R&T Park and other business parks in favour of Downtown Kitchener.