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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

salsa said:
Half of the revenue from the transit taxes are supposed to be spent outside of Toronto, so I would imagine that the funding will come from there.
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But is it enough to pay for HSR? I guess we'll find out when Murray shows his cards .. and it's not like the areas outside of Toronto don't have other transit/highway priorities.
 
Solid Snake said:
Very unlikely. That promise seemed so improvised. I never bought it since day one.
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Wynne could afford to wait anyways. With the coronation of Prince Trudeau being likely in 2015, the feds might dangle some HSR funds to entice voters. It's high time the feds started investing in Ontario, instead of milking the province every chance they get.
 
DB9 said:
Until the feds get on board I just don't see this happening. The province simply can't afford it.
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Much of the cost exists whether they put in HSR or not. Georgetown is separated, Kitchener will be rebuilt and electrified.

This project is really just London to Kitchener and a handful of trains. Even the storage yard can be the standard Yard for Kitchener service.

VIA owns the London to Kitchener corridor, but the MTO report suggested a new corridor may be required anyway. Taking farmland will be the hardest part.
 
DB9 said:
But is it enough to pay for HSR? I guess we'll find out when Murray shows his cards .. and it's not like the areas outside of Toronto don't have other transit/highway priorities.
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If the transportation funding is split 50/50 for GTA and non-GTA spending, they'll be looking for a lot of projects outside the GTA.

Kitchener electrification, regular Niagara Falls service of some kind, London HSR, Ottawa LRT Phase 2, and Ring of Fire together still leave several billion on the table without an earmark for non-GTA projects.
 
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Trudeau seems quite interested in infrastructure spending, that is for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a large part of their 2015 platform.
 
rbt said:
If the transportation funding is split 50/50 for GTA and non-GTA spending, they'll be looking for a lot of projects outside the GTA.

Kitchener electrification, regular Niagara Falls service of some kind, London HSR, Ottawa LRT Phase 2, and Ring of Fire together still leave several billion on the table without an earmark for non-GTA projects.
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If I remember correctly from their platform, they want to leave quite a bit of the non-GTA funds for four-laning highways and for rural bridge/road replacements. That'll leave less fiscal wiggle room for London HSR.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
Trudeau seems quite interested in infrastructure spending, that is for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a large part of their 2015 platform.
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It would be a surprise if it wasn't. If he can't consolidate his support in the urban regions, he's toast politically.
 
DB9 said:
If I remember correctly from their platform, they want to leave quite a bit of the non-GTA funds for four-laning highways and for rural bridge/road replacements. That'll leave less fiscal wiggle room for London HSR.
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I think your mistaking this short HSR segment as a $20B project. It's closer to 10% of that and possibly significantly less if operations can run at a profit as expected. Kitchener LRT is actually much more expensive over 50 years than the HSR is expected to be.

We'll see what the EA kicks out as it's very preliminary at the moment. But it's certainly worth taking a more thorough look at.

Keep in mind the Building Canada fund from the Federal Conservatives would be thrilled to invest in roadway projects (50/50).

There is loads of wiggle room in the non-GTA budget. Many of the roadway projects will find support from the Federal Conservatives. That takes the edge off any pressure that might exist.
 
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rbt said:
I think your mistaking this short HSR segment as a $20B project. It's closer to 10% of that and possibly significantly less if operations can run at a profit as expected. Sheppard LRT is actually more expensive over 50 years than the HSR is expected to be.

There's loads of wiggle room in the non-GTA budget.
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Man I thought HSR was going to be 5 billion at least. It is because they already have the tracks in place (mostly?)
 
rbt said:
I think your mistaking this short HSR segment as a $20B project. It's closer to 10% of that and possibly significantly less if operations can run at a profit as expected. Kitchener LRT is actually much more expensive over 50 years than the HSR is expected to be.

We'll see what the EA kicks out as it's very preliminary at the moment. But it's certainly worth taking a more thorough look at.

Keep in mind the Building Canada fund from the Federal Conservatives would be thrilled to invest in roadway projects (50/50).

There is loads of wiggle room in the non-GTA budget. Many of the roadway projects will find support from the Federal Conservatives. That takes the edge off any pressure that might exist.
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I guess that operating at a profit thing is contained in that report that Murray could not release to the public because of the election....wonder when we will see that? Every other report on HSR (when it was considered a Quebec City to Windsor project) had shown the part west/south west of Toronto being the part that needed the greatest subsidies....then, voila, Murray has a report that he can't show us that shows this part being so operationally profitable that the net cost of the whole project is something like $500 million?
 
Those reports never had Kitchener Waterloo or Pearson stops, they presumed that the HSR would travel like the current main VIA line to London runs.
 
rbt said:
I think your mistaking this short HSR segment as a $20B project. It's closer to 10% of that and possibly significantly less if operations can run at a profit as expected. Kitchener LRT is actually much more expensive over 50 years than the HSR is expected to be.

We'll see what the EA kicks out as it's very preliminary at the moment. But it's certainly worth taking a more thorough look at.
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True, it's still pretty preliminary. If the costing works out, it's probably worth looking further into.

Keep in mind the Building Canada fund from the Federal Conservatives would be thrilled to invest in roadway projects (50/50).

There is loads of wiggle room in the non-GTA budget. Many of the roadway projects will find support from the Federal Conservatives. That takes the edge off any pressure that might exist.
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As much as I hope that'll be the case, the eternal battle to extract federal funding for the Ring of Fire has left me somewhat pessimistic. It seems the feds are not the least bit interested in helping Ontario develop basic infrastructure, even if it's for the primary benefit of Canadian businesses.
 
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