High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

[mdrejhon]

Does HSR run on a special kind of tracks?

No - only optimized track for highest speed.
It can still do RER trains too, and vice versa if it were not for train gridlock due to different speeds.

For existing track, if you keep below the speed limit of that said track, trackwork, and track maintenance is high enough quality not to damage HSR wheels. Damaged (dented) wheels will be problematic at high speeds.

In other words, the Georgetown Corridor will be happy with HSR at less-than-HSR speeds. Trains can make it from downtown to Pearson in slightly umder 20 mins at top speed allowable. A few speed optimizations like USRC is needed, but the corridor from Pearson to Union won't be the major bottleneck for a 48 minute Kitchener commute.

The incredibly expensive stuff is the Bypass and the work Brampton and beyond.

 

[steveintoronto]

There are examples of world class high speed and local services sharing *double* tracks with the stations being the passing loops. China, Japan, UK, France, Germany, Austria etc using examples of this.

Here's a Norwegian analysis for a new high speed mixed use double track line to meet EU, Norwegian and Swedish regulations:

Station design on high speed railway in Scandinavia
A study of how track and platform technical design aspects are affected by high speed railway concepts planned for the Oslo – Göteborg line
Master of Science Thesis in the Master’s Programme Infrastructure and Environmental Engineering
TOVE ANDERSSON

DAVID LINDVERT Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering Division of GeoEngineering Road and Traffic CHALMERS UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY Göteborg, Sweden 2013 Master’s Thesis 2013:50

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e552/0c757d9d320ce7c3a731a36d04fd98098b41.pdf

This includes freight use too. Signalling and control systems are the key.

 

[crs1026]

I could have posted this in several threads, but this one seemed the most appropriate.

CN has served notice that it is assuming freight operations on the GEXR effective November 15, 2018.

This includes freight business on the portion of the line now owned by ML.

Sure hope there is an appropriate agreement about when freight can (and can't) operate.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

^ No matter what it means, it sure warrants watching closely.

 

[muller877]

I could have posted this in several threads, but this one seemed the most appropriate.

CN has served notice that it is assuming freight operations on the GEXR effective November 15, 2018.

This includes freight business on the portion of the line now owned by ML.

Sure hope there is an appropriate agreement about when freight can (and can't) operate.

- Paul

GEXR would have continued to have running rights on the ML owned portion of the line after the acquisition. And CN will be managing these rights on behalf of GEXR's owners (G&W). (as I understand it)

A good thing too. There are about 25,000 commodity car movements on the GEXR each year serving a large rural swath of the province. It would be devastating to these businesses to lose a main way of transporting goods.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I could have posted this in several threads, but this one seemed the most appropriate.

CN has served notice that it is assuming freight operations on the GEXR effective November 15, 2018.

This includes freight business on the portion of the line now owned by ML.

Sure hope there is an appropriate agreement about when freight can (and can't) operate.

- Paul

View attachment 140234

This is very interesting. What interest does CN have in this? Was GEXR making that much money? What is the strategic advantage to shutting GEXR out? So many unknown and unanswered questions, which may have something or nothing to do with GO/HSR.

 

[crs1026]

This is very interesting. What interest does CN have in this? Was GEXR making that much money? What is the strategic advantage to shutting GEXR out? So many unknown and unanswered questions, which may have something or nothing to do with GO/HSR.

CN makes lots of money from GEXR already. The cars only travel at most 100 miles on GEXR, but they may move hundreds of miles on CN to their eventual destination. So CN gets the lion's share of the revenue, and has an interest in managing the customer relationship end to end. The cars are already being tracked in CN's data systems so eliminating GEXR doesn't add any new overheads. Car supply can be managed more easily with CN as the customer's point of contact.

CN spun off branch lines back when union rules were different and the branches were seen as marginal or failing. The shortlines have built a sustainable customer base. The labour cost differentials aren't that great.

CN also took back control of the Southern Ontario Railway from Brantford to Nanticoke. Clearly, they have a different attitude to branch lines than previously. They may even see the business growing in the future.

- Paul

 

[Fritter]

Clearly, they have a different attitude to branch lines than previously

Re-laying of track on abandoned subdivisions, or am I just dreaming in technicolour?

 

[lenaitch]

Re-laying of track on abandoned subdivisions, or am I just dreaming in technicolour?

Vividly

 

[Allandale25]

Recent article from SW Ontario.

STRATFORD NEWS
GROUP CRITICAL OF ONTARIO’S PLANS FOR HIGH SPEED RAIL LINE PASSING THROUGH OXFORD COUNTY

Not everyone is happy with the plans Ontario has for a high speed rail line.

The line would run between Toronto and London, through part of Oxford County, and a non-partisan ad-hoc group is holding a series of information sessions in our area where they are laying out their concerns about the portion running from Kitchener to London, including technical, commercial, social and economic factors that they feel should lead the province to look at other ideas like expanding and improving the Via Rail line that runs through Stratford.

InterCityRail coordinator Ken Westcar says the high speed line would interfere with peoples livelihoods.

“All the way from Wilmot Township, west of Kitchener, all the way to Thames Center, east of London, and it will be passing across the top of Embro and as a result of that it will consume, to get the right of way in place for the high speed rail, it will consume over 1000 acres of prime agricultural farm land.”

The province is currently conducting environmental assessments on the lines route between Kitchener and London and Premier Kathleen Wynne announced earlier this month that the government would invest $11 billion dollars to help it get up and running by 2025, calling it a “building block” that would help the southwest have an exciting future.

 

[cplchanb]

Recent article from SW Ontario.

"non-partisan ad-hoc group" groups that call themselves that just screams the opposite. just like the PRC and DPRK... they are both very democratic....

on a more serous note maybe if they get a stop nearby that would silence them... im pretty sure in the end that is their endgoal; playing chicken to see who blinks first

 

[ssiguy2]

I`ve never agree with this line and have never thought it was a good use of precious infrastructure funds. This isn`t helped by the fact that the province is caving in to small centres so now places like Guelph and Chatham are also getting a station. The fact that Stratford now wants one was plan to see and of course St.Mary`s and Georgetown will be next. These extra stops result in slower travel times taking the Speed out of High Speed Rail.

People in London and Windsor will be better served by simply using the current southern corridor and running express 200km/hr diesel trains with some key grade separations, track twinning and the crucial Brantford northern by-pass. It would be much faster to build, still get Londoners to Union in 75 minutes, won`t require near as much land acquisition and won`t be held up in the courts endlessly.

The connection to KWC`s high tech sector is for Torontonians alone and few Londoners actually head to Pearson as London has a decent airport with good connection and no one from Windsor drives to Pearson. For KW just use express GO trains stopping only at Malton to get to Union which will almost be as fast as the current HSR proposal.

 

[muller877]

"non-partisan ad-hoc group" groups that call themselves that just screams the opposite. just like the PRC and DPRK... they are both very democratic....

on a more serous note maybe if they get a stop nearby that would silence them... im pretty sure in the end that is their endgoal; playing chicken to see who blinks first

Beyond that they are looking for more crossings paid for and maintained by the province than "major roads". The initial plan has fewer crossings per km than the 401. One township had zero crossings. And yet they build basically every other road across the tracks for Weston.

They had neighbours and family that have been next door to them for generations and once this is build they could be a 15 minute drive away. It's a serious issue that the Province is pushing the cost to the municipality to bear. Even though they get zero benefit out of it.

They are also asking for something that is not unreasonable. A real EA that goes beyond a line on the map drawn for some political game. An EA that actually compares options.

 

[innsertnamehere]

you put out your opinion again and again but the primary focus of this line (and most of it's cost) isn't actually getting to London. It's getting to Waterloo. Getting from Waterloo to London is actually easy and quite cheap, just a straight new build corridor with no major bridges, structures, or grade separations. Getting to Waterloo requires massive upgrades through Guelph, Brampton, Georgetown, etc.

Turning this project into a southern corridor direct to london may indeed cut costs, but it also cuts out most of the benefits of connecting Pearson and Waterloo.

 

[steveintoronto]

This isn`t helped by the fact that the province is caving in to small centres so now places like Guelph and Chatham are also getting a station.

Guelph is exactly the same population as Kingston. I understand the nature of your argument, but context is everything.