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GTTA: Merging Bus Routes

drum118

drum118

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Mayor Hazel McCallion blew me away when she made the motion and recommendation to the board at Metrolinx meeting on Friday by calling for the merging of routes that have duplication of service as a quick fix.

She has finally done a 180 degree related to transit and this motion is long over due.

She was calling for a committee of all transit systems to be form to look at merging routes that offer duplication of service and service that would help rider better than offer today. This motion and recommendation was pass off to Metrolinx staff.

I believe this caught Metrolinx staff off guard, but the board members of the 905's were all for it.

I wasn't too sure if this was correct since Hazel wasn't turn her mica on or speaking into and was confirm when I spoke to her at lunch.

I'm sure TTC is not open to this as there are a number of routes TTC will loose if mergers of routes take place. Then maybe they are.

She was very please when I told her of what I said in my report about merging of various transit systems routes that I gave to Donna Cansfield (then the Ministry of Transportation) back in July 2008 when I meet with her. Also that the report had been given to GTTA/Metrolinx a day later.

She said the Toronto Act was an issues and with the creation of the GTTA/Metrolinx, GTTA/Metrolinx could removed the last barrier where transit system can interchange freely with each other like it does in the 905 between the various systems today.

She agree with me that both TTC 49 and 50 should be operated by MT as well other route by other systems severing all systems.

I have been pushing since 2002 to get the 2 TTC routes turn over to MT as they could provide better service for Toronto than TTC could as well MT carry more riders than TTC did in the first place. Looks like I will get my wish.

I made the business case for 50 to the point that TTC would only loose cash fare. TTC would have 3 buses to be use else where along with the operation cost just under $1 million. TTC riders would see nothing different other than more service, longer hour and riding MT buses.

I cannot make a business case for 49 on the other hand without some support from TTC. Again, TTC riders would only see more service, longer hours and MT riders will end up at Kipling a lot sooner than plan.

This also pave the way for VIVA Purple to operate into Brampton, allowing the removal of BT77 and part of the Orange route. Or have Orange take over that section and this will require riders going to the Yonge line to transfer 2 extra times as a down side vs 1 connecting to the Blue at RHC by the Purple.

There are a large number of routes this can happen too and a fair number could be in place by year end depending on the systems.

One thing jump out of the TTC report on outstanding report, is a report on my report that I presented to the Commissioners back in 2005 that was refer to staff by Howard then Chair of TTC.

Now to get GO and TTC to do this as well getting GO to use the same fare structure as TTC within the 416. Then have to look doing the same thing in the 905.

Add to the list:
 
The 77 will likely not be removed even if the Viva Orange is joined with Acceleride Queen Street, as the 77 is supposed to be the local service, just as the 98 and 99 parallel Viva Blue on Yonge.

BT planners have told me that they want the Orange route (either outright or a joint operation), with the connection to Downsview Station being their goal until the subway is extended. It makes more sense than extending the Purple route.

I hope this also means that the Acceleride Main Street line will join with the proposed Mississauga "pre-BRT" Hurontario service, rather than forcing the transfer at the 407, something else that BT planners told me they don't want to do, they want a one-seat ride from Downtown Brampton to at least Square One.
 
If all the systems agree on what the fares will be, what the transfer privileges will be and if an extra fare will be charged, then this is quite possibly the single greatest thing we can do for GTA transit short of constructing new lines.

We need to think of transportation planning as a regional exercise. My commute crosses four municipalities, and it makes no sense to put up arbitrary borders for people like me who choose long-distance transit despite the horrible inconvenience.
 
RedRocket191 said:
We need to think of transportation planning as a regional exercise. My commute crosses four municipalities, and it makes no sense to put up arbitrary borders for people like me who choose long-distance transit despite the horrible inconvenience.
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Agreed - but we can't achieve this by simply puting a single zone for the entire GTA. It's about 1 km from me to the nearest grocery store - all of 3 streetcar stops. If I choose to do a grocery shop, and don't feel like walking home, why should I pay the same fare to go 3 stops, as does someone who travels through 4 different cities?
 
nfitz said:
Agreed - but we can't achieve this by simply puting a single zone for the entire GTA. It's about 1 km from me to the nearest grocery store - all of 3 streetcar stops. If I choose to do a grocery shop, and don't feel like walking home, why should I pay the same fare to go 3 stops, as does someone who travels through 4 different cities?
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Well, consider the opposite of that.

What's my motivation to take transit if I have longer trips, poorer service and higher fares?

It flies in the face of economics and common sense, but if we are ever to break the lock the car has on us then we as a society need to decide if the statement above is fair and equitable.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have zone fares. I am saying that until we can bring everyone to within a 20 minute bus ride to a rapid transit station (and MoveOntario 2020 will come pretty close to this), we need to have fare policies that convince long-distance travelers to put up with longer waits and longer trips.
 
I've been thinking about how Viva could help to serve the eastern part of Toronto. Viva green could help take some load off the Don Mills bus, while a route running down McCowan from Markville Mall to Scarborough Centre could relieve the McCowan North route.
 
I agree that the idea of having MT buses replace service on 50 Burnhamthorpe and 49 Bloor West is a good idea and long overdue. And I don't think the TTC even has to lose its cash fare, all that much. All the buses would have to do is disembark at a conveniently placed entrance to the subway that's outside the fare paid area. The location where Mississauga buses tend to drop off passengers at Islington Station is already a pretty good location, though I know that's going away.

It would work like this:

- Passengers boarding the inbound Bloor or Burnhamthorpe routes in Mississauga would pay their Mississauga Transit fare, and then pay their TTC fare when they boarded the subway at Islington or Kipling.
- Passengers boarding the inbound Bloor or Burnhamthorpe routes in Toronto would pay the TTC fare and receive a transfer, which they'd show when they transferred at the subway.
- The buses would then proceed into the fare paid bus terminals of the subway to take on passengers, transfer-free. But no Mississauga Transit transfers would be issued unless passengers paid the MT fare.
- Passengers boarding the outbound Bloor or Burnhamthorpe routes would pay MT fare and receive MT transfers. The buses would also accept TTC transfers from connecting services, on the honesty system (as in, these people are not supposed to travel beyond Etobicoke Creek). But I think realistically, we're not talking about all that many people. For those MT passengers who boarded for free at Kipling or Islington stations, MT would collect their fares when they transferred to other routes, since these individuals would not have received transfers.

MT only loses fares from those who end their journeys at points along the route, which admittedly includes Square One. The TTC could compensate MT for this with a cash transfer. If the amount of that transfer is less than the amount the TTC saves by pulling the operation of its 49 Bloor West and 50 Burnhamthorpe buses, the TTC comes out ahead.

...James Bow
http://bowjamesbow.ca/blog.shtml
 
This step is long overdue. The situation on Burnhamthorpe Road in Etobicoke is particularly pathetic, for residents there, who have an inferior sevice on the TTC Burnhamthorpe bus (no service at all after 10 pm. on part of the route), while they have to watch the Miss. buses go by, which they can't use. In the past there have been protests in Etobicoke over the number of Mississauga buses running through this residential district.

I remember a blockade of the street by some residents several years ago, and Mississauga buses being boarded on the street outside Islington station, as foolish Howard Moscoe tried to score points by not letting Mississauga route 26 buses into the station.

Welcome back to the forum James Bow.
 
This reminds me an awful lot of my old commuting days from Bayview and Steeles. I described that in another thread, but this is a perfect place to say it again.

I used to board a Steeles express bus at Bayview and Steeles due to unrelated double fare issues. The TTC buses were so unbelievably full that you could raise both legs and still not fall to the ground. While waiting for the TTC bus, it was common to see an almost empty YRT pass by, that also ran express directly to the same subway station.

Duplication of service runs rampant around the fringes of Toronto. I do think that the Steeles and Bayview buses are separate enough that running both to the subway is necessary. However, there is no reason why empty YRT buses shouldn't pick up TTC passengers who are making the exact same trip to the subway. This would allow the TTC to offer the same level of service while eliminating redundant rush hour branches such as, if memory serves me correctly, 53C and 53D.
 
I've been thinking about how Viva could help to serve the eastern part of Toronto. Viva green could help take some load off the Don Mills bus, while a route running down McCowan from Markville Mall to Scarborough Centre could relieve the McCowan North route.
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I've always wondered if the 102 Markham route could be improved by a VIVA, or YRT, route that served Main Street Markham/Highway 48/Markham Road in Markham, and ended at STC (the 102 goes all the way to Warden). It could serve points in Scarborough along the way.
 
If we're choosing one or the other, McCowan is a more logical Viva route than Markham...Viva McCowan would probably see double the ridership of Viva Markham. Viva Kennedy wouldn't a bad option, either. Same with Viva Warden. In a world without the double fare, all of these routes would become wildly successful Rocket routes like the 190.

Even where they don't have overlapping service, more TTC routes should be combined with 905 routes along obviously continuous corridors (like Kennedy, Brimley, etc.). I guess one problem would be the creation of extremely long routes that are next to impossible to maintain consistent headways upon.
 
In order to allow MT busses to pick up Toronto passengers you really need to merge the transit systems into one or you are going to have problems. MT is allowed to drop off passengers of Mississauga origin at the subway because it benefits the TTC to have those passengers. Once MT is picking up Toronto passengers they are taking fares and jobs from TTC drivers. If MT busses are allowed to pick up local Toronto passengers heading to Toronto destinations then the TTC drivers will want to run routes to Square One. It will be a mess if the province doesn't take over the whole thing and merge them all together.
 
EnviroTO said:
In order to allow MT busses to pick up Toronto passengers you really need to merge the transit systems into one or you are going to have problems. MT is allowed to drop off passengers of Mississauga origin at the subway because it benefits the TTC to have those passengers. Once MT is picking up Toronto passengers they are taking fares and jobs from TTC drivers. If MT busses are allowed to pick up local Toronto passengers heading to Toronto destinations then the TTC drivers will want to run routes to Square One.
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Er... if MT takes over service on Burnhamthorpe and Bloor, then why would the TTC need to serve Sq One?

The TTC gets no benefit from route 49 and 50, excepting losing a lot of money and the service is still inferior to MT's service.
 
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