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Graffiti

You're right...the hypocrisy of the "war on drugs" is bad enough, the wasteful futility that I referred to is just one thing wrong with it and definitely not the only.

Sorry, perhaps you don't understand where I'm coming from though.
Murder and rape are not intrinsic to certain subcultures, but graff and drugs are. This is why I compared the two (non-)issues. Now, don't get me wrong, even I will agree that some tagging crosses certain lines of propriety belonging even to proponents of graff, but the vast majority of graff isn't so damaging to actual physical property as much as to some people's sense of aesthetic. Much like bleak, blank walls are damaging to others' sense of aesthetic. Kind of like recreational drug use, in fact. Those that can never appreciate its benefits and beauty will always scream bloody murder at any perceived threat to their sense of what the world should be like. I can understand that not everyone will appreciate a nice piece in a back alley or on the side of a building, up above the street. Much like I don't enjoy the vast majority of American films, or most rock music.....and, yes, this IS a comparison in art forms.

I was just saying: we are truly wasting our time, money, and effort worrying about graff.

What's the rate of unemployment in Toronto these days? (I could continue but I know at least four of you will see this as the red herring that it is :p )
 
Even if the graffiti is good, it's not acceptable if it's imposed on another person's property, or public property. Removing it can be damaging to brick or other types of wall over time. An impressive graffiti mural done with permission is a non-issue that shouldn't factor into the debate. I encourage such legal works. Few people take issue with the wild colours and letters anymore since it's so common. One could easily find some seniors who would love the big, legal murals of talented street artists.

The difference is that damaging or even defacing property is not justifiable, unlike drug use which doesn't necessarily have to violate another person's rights. Subcultures can and do change all the time. Graffiti as a subculture is badly dated and costly to do in time and money. It isn't good for the environment, either.
 
junctionist said:
The difference is that damaging or even defacing property is not justifiable, unlike drug use which doesn't necessarily have to violate another person's rights. Subcultures can and do change all the time. Graffiti as a subculture is badly dated and costly to do in time and money. It isn't good for the environment, either.
Click to expand...

Strongly agree.
 
MTown said:
You're right...the hypocrisy of the "war on drugs" is bad enough, the wasteful futility that I referred to is just one thing wrong with it and definitely not the only.

Sorry, perhaps you don't understand where I'm coming from though.
Murder and rape are not intrinsic to certain subcultures, but graff and drugs are. This is why I compared the two (non-)issues. Now, don't get me wrong, even I will agree that some tagging crosses certain lines of propriety belonging even to proponents of graff, but the vast majority of graff isn't so damaging to actual physical property as much as to some people's sense of aesthetic. Much like bleak, blank walls are damaging to others' sense of aesthetic. Kind of like recreational drug use, in fact. Those that can never appreciate its benefits and beauty will always scream bloody murder at any perceived threat to their sense of what the world should be like. I can understand that not everyone will appreciate a nice piece in a back alley or on the side of a building, up above the street. Much like I don't enjoy the vast majority of American films, or most rock music.....and, yes, this IS a comparison in art forms.

I was just saying: we are truly wasting our time, money, and effort worrying about graff.

What's the rate of unemployment in Toronto these days? (I could continue but I know at least four of you will see this as the red herring that it is :p )
Click to expand...

Care to post your address? I get this urge to write my name in big colourful letters all over your couch and walls. I'll also make a cool drawing of a flying jesus christ over your kitchen. Don't worry, the actual physical property won't be damaged much. In fact, in MY opinion YOUR house is going to look much better this way.

I'm sure you also won't mind me putting large speakers outside your house and playing Justin Bieber songs 24/7 for ever. No worries, you'll only be able to hear it when you leave and come back. As soon as someone likes it it's OK.
 
Spray up: Inside Toronto’s graffiti scene

Mr. Kalimeris learned at a recent anti-graffiti conference that a writer inflicts $250,000 to $300,000 worth of property damage before he or she gets to the stage where they’re creating what others consider art. The worst he has seen was on a city building by Lakeshore Boulevard and the Gardiner Expressway. Kids figured out a way to put poster paint into a dish soap bottle, and then fired it 25 feet up the wall. “Again, I say it’s a beautiful crime but I didn’t see a lot of beauty that day. They’re really getting destructive,” said Mr. Pasman, the technician. The vandals will write him loving missives like “buff this bitch” and have tried to buy his hunter green Goodbye Graffiti getup, presumably to make bombing a little more stealthy. “People say they’re artists. They’re not artists. They’re criminals, they’re vandals,” said Mr. Kalimeris. “It’s on somebody’s property without permission. A mural is art that someone pays someone to paint.”

More...http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/03/19/spray-up-inside-torontos-graffiti-scene/
 
Hahaaaaa. 740 Concession 3...but only for another two weeks, so hurry!!!! And what, we're talking about break and enter now in addition to rape and murder? Shit, you cats sure know how to stretch the definition of topical discourse (says the drug analogy-user).

Anyhow, good graff beautifies sometimes dreary cities and should be embraced in all its various forms, as far as I'm concerned and--as an expression of egomania--will never be eradicated. Admittedly, good graff gives me a hard-on. Haters gonna hate but they should ask themselves where the vast majority of graff is in terms of wall space. I don't suppose you differentiate between that graff found under bridges and that found on rooftops. Neither do I, actually.

And hey, RC8.....how big are these speakerboxes? Bring them....we need some loud choooonz up in this bitch!! Sure, we'll roll with your Bieber if you'll roll with our Black Sun Empire. :)

So, what is the unemployment rate in Toronto?
Nay, the child poverty rate?
We don't have money to expand transit (properly), you say?
Fuck it, there's graff to be eradicated!
 
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The vast majority of people don't want graffiti in their properties or in their cities. You need to respect that.

If you don't; don't complain when these people angrily vote for whoever promises to clean up the mess you've left behind.

We remove graffiti for the same reason we plant trees in the city: that's how people like it. I suppose you are fervently opposed to the NPS revitalisation or the Bloor re-vamp.
 
Nope, of course not. Neither the Nathan Phillips Square project nor the Bloor Street project will result in the city being any bleaker. Graff adds colour, visual dynamic, and character to a city.

Just for the record, because you seem to be insinuating something about me: I do not spray.
I don't really care who people vote for, much like I vote in every election knowing that my vote goes nowhere. I just accept it. I mean, I've got Harper as PM, McGuinty as Premier, and Ryan as mayor...not to mention fuckhead Anderson as Durham boss....fucking gross but I ain't leaving the country any time soon.

Anyway.....you bringing those speakerboxes?


Also, I'm not sure I was complaining about anything unlike others here. I was just stating a fact: graff cannot and will not be eradicated AND we have REAL issues at hand around this city.....graff ain't one of them if people are going hungry or can't find work. As far as I'm concerned, graff is a non-issue compared to things like this and I'd really enjoy it if people could look at this "problem" in that context.
 
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Tee hee, "graff" :rolleyes:

Anyways, mutual respect is such a simple thing, it confuses me as to why it so dificult for some to observe. If people respected other people's property, we wouldn't need to spend money cleaning it up.
 
MTown, of course there are more important issues than graffiti. But that doesn't have anything to do with the issue of graffiti. This thread is about graffiti not about the other million issues our communities face.
 
I was just stating my opinion that I see it as a non-issue. Mostly because it is a non-issue, but also because I happen to enjoy graff and see it as both aesthetically pleasing and character-building. That is: adding character to the streets. No, seriously.
 
Good street art can be beautiful. If it's a mural supported by the owner, then great. Unfortunately, most graffiti is simple vandalism. If I caught someone vandalizing my property, I'd be calling the police immediately.
 
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Big difference between graffitti and tagging. I would love to catch a tagger. I would tag them and then some.
 
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