GO Transit: Union Station Shed Replacement & Track Upgrades (Zeidler)

[Panontario]

It's in the Bay teamway - posted in Union Station Revitalization by someone else but applicable here as well:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...lls-on-her-at-union-stations-go-terminal.html

They couldn't do *anything* right. I sure hope the individual sues the responsible parties to kingdom come. That, and raze this pile of garbage to the ground.

AoD

If it is found to be due to negligence, I hope the actual person responsible pays the price. Otherwise, everything gets ultimately passed onto taxpayers. Construction workers have to start taking responsibility for their mistakes and negligence. Shit like this happens all the times. For example in my building, the construction workers "forgot" to tighten some bolts securing a pipe. It snapped causing thousands in damages... ultimately paid for by the insurance company that in turn raised our premiums...

 

[Northern Light]

If it is found to be due to negligence, I hope the actual person responsible pays the price. Otherwise, everything gets ultimately passed onto taxpayers. Construction workers have to start taking responsibility for their mistakes and negligence. Shit like this happens all the times. For example in my building, the construction workers "forgot" to tighten some bolts securing a pipe. It snapped causing thousands in damages... ultimately paid for by the insurance company that in turn raised our premiums...

In complete agreement.

Not that this would change anything...........but it strikes me that when one goes to see a feature film you have the end credits where everyone down to the caterer and the security detail are recognized for their role.

The underwear I purchase comes with tiny stickers 'inspected by 44" or some such thing (traceable if not personal)

Yet in construction we don't list the credits on major jobs.

Once upon a time you might have seen a corner stone or the like that named the architect or perhaps the builder.

That is now quite rare.

I'd like to go back but enhance it.

At the minimum, every architect and engineer that touch the project along with the project manager and site manager should get to have their name proudly on the wall in stone or on shiny metal.

Preferably, every single warm body (we can maybe leave out the caterer, LOL) who touched the bloody project, every plumber, welder, crane operator, tiler, carpenter or general labourer should be listed.

Anything that is required to pass inspection should have both an in-house brand on it and a City inspector stamp if applicable.

It won't make anyone smarter, nor any one person beyond mistakes, but we have to encourage pride in one's work and make accountability clear, particularly where mistakes can cost lives.

 

[Northern Light]

Come to think of it, I like this idea for other applications.

When I walk into a hospital, the wall should have the names and positions titles not only of those involved in its construction, but all of those who manage its operation.

The lobby should be the C-Suite names, with every department having its managers smiling faces on the wall.

Extend that to every facet of large organizations, public and private.

Am I getting carried away? Hmmmm Maybe. But I just might be serious too.

 

[crs1026]

Come to think of it, I like this idea for other applications.

When I walk into a hospital, the wall should have the names and positions titles not only of those involved in its construction, but all of those who manage its operation.

The lobby should be the C-Suite names, with every department having its managers smiling faces on the wall.

Extend that to every facet of large organizations, public and private.

Am I getting carried away? Hmmmm Maybe. But I just might be serious too.

Hmmm... the station was built in what, 1917? You are going to find the labourers who mixed the concrete, argue about whether they screwed up versus the ones that built the forms, versus their foreman or manager who pinched pennies by understaffing, thereby compromising the efforts of the above labourers who were diligent but overworked? Sounds like business development for law firms to me. Or a great debate for an evening of beer drinking with your buddies ;-)

I take comfort that engineering and construction quality control is better than it was a century ago, and lawsuits do have an impact. It’s far from a perfect world, however..... litigation of warranty issues in all those modern condo projects is a big growt industry for the legal profession.

It’s entirely possible that Union Station, despite its great beauty and role in Toronto’s heritage, was constructed with a design life expectancy of 99 years, and no life extension work undertaken for the first 90 of those years. My fear is that worst case, this structure may be like one of those knitted sweaters that develops a loose thread. You pull on the loose thread ..... and the whole sweater unravels. I hope not, but little in this whole renovation effort gives one confidence that the engineers took a ground-up approach to planning the renovations. We may have been putting stucco on a pig.

- Paul

 

[DSC]

CBC are announcing that engineers say 'tunnel' is safe' and that the Bay Teamway is open again.

 

[steveintoronto]

Hmmm... the station was built in what, 1917? You are going to find the labourers who mixed the concrete, argue about whether they screwed up versus the ones that built the forms, versus their foreman or manager who pinched pennies by understaffing, thereby compromising the efforts of the above labourers who were diligent but overworked? Sounds like business development for law firms to me. Or a great debate for an evening of beer drinking with your buddies ;-)

I take comfort that engineering and construction quality control is better than it was a century ago, and lawsuits do have an impact. It’s far from a perfect world, however..... litigation of warranty issues in all those modern condo projects is a big growt industry for the legal profession.

It’s entirely possible that Union Station, despite its great beauty and role in Toronto’s heritage, was constructed with a design life expectancy of 99 years, and no life extension work undertaken for the first 90 of those years. My fear is that worst case, this structure may be like one of those knitted sweaters that develops a loose thread. You pull on the loose thread ..... and the whole sweater unravels. I hope not, but little in this whole renovation effort gives one confidence that the engineers took a ground-up approach to planning the renovations. We may have been putting stucco on a pig.

- Paul

It was underneath the in-renovation steps to the platforms.

https://www.cp24.com/news/concrete-reportedly-falls-on-woman-s-head-at-union-station-1.4131023

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Hmmm... the station was built in what, 1917? You are going to find the labourers who mixed the concrete, argue about whether they screwed up versus the ones that built the forms, versus their foreman or manager who pinched pennies by understaffing, thereby compromising the efforts of the above labourers who were diligent but overworked? Sounds like business development for law firms to me. Or a great debate for an evening of beer drinking with your buddies ;-)

I take comfort that engineering and construction quality control is better than it was a century ago, and lawsuits do have an impact. It’s far from a perfect world, however..... litigation of warranty issues in all those modern condo projects is a big growt industry for the legal profession.

It’s entirely possible that Union Station, despite its great beauty and role in Toronto’s heritage, was constructed with a design life expectancy of 99 years, and no life extension work undertaken for the first 90 of those years. My fear is that worst case, this structure may be like one of those knitted sweaters that develops a loose thread. You pull on the loose thread ..... and the whole sweater unravels. I hope not, but little in this whole renovation effort gives one confidence that the engineers took a ground-up approach to planning the renovations. We may have been putting stucco on a pig.

- Paul

Well, that particular stretch of the Bay Teamway have persistent water intrusion issue to say the least - the ceiling is like a patchwork of jerry-rigged tarpaulins and tubing for draining the leakage for the last little while.

CBC are announcing that engineers say 'tunnel' is safe' and that the Bay Teamway is open again.

I wonder if it was deemed safe before.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Here's a news report on exactly where it happened:

http://ow.ly/eNGH30mcOB4 @carl680

Steps are going to have to be taken to further protect the public, either by fencing off construction more, or erecting 'rockfall meshing' under recent construction such as this.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Steps are going to have to be taken to further protect the public, either by fencing off construction more, or erecting 'rockfall meshing' under recent construction such as this.

Great, because the route isn't sh*tty enough as it is already. What should I expect next, a giant boulder running down the stairs?

(Disney/Lucasfilm)

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Great, because the route isn't sh*tty enough as it is already. What should I expect next, a giant boulder running down the stairs?
AoD

Well, it's going to be interesting to see what steps they do take, but after seeing the mesh being used in European renos and tunneling/mining, I did an extensive read-up on it last night. I was intrigued by the extensive use of it in the London Bridge Station reno. Bricks rather than loose concrete was mostly the concern there, but for the public to have continued safe access, the point is the same. Disturb it, and unless reinforced, chunks are likely to come down.

Some of the vids on the accident show a fair amount of loose chunk on the floor after the scaling operation. That in itself should be a warning of what to expect when disturbing century old concrete. Meshing is cheap and easy to anchor, especially on concrete. I'm sure that's one of the measures needed, and probably used on the Gardiner when it was dropping chunks.

What should I expect next, a giant boulder running down the stairs?

You're not far off on that, not for a boulder, but those steps are very dangerous! I'm amazed a woman in high heels hasn't caught them and gone flying down one of the stairways.

It's a matter of time until it does happen.

O. Reg. 213/91: CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
under Occupational Health and Safety Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. O.1


(2) The walls of an excavation cut in rock shall be supported by rock anchors or wire mesh if support is necessary to prevent the spalling of loose rock. O. Reg. 213/91, s. 232 (2).

(3) If a shaft is to be cut in sound rock, the constructor shall obtain a written opinion from a professional engineer as to whether the walls of the shaft need to be supported by rock bolts or wire mesh to prevent the spalling of loose rock. O. Reg. 213/91, s. 279 (3).

(4) The walls of a shaft cut in sound rock shall be supported by rock bolts or wire mesh where necessary in the opinion of the professional engineer. O. Reg. 213/91, s. 279 (4).

(3) The sides and roof of a tunnel cut in sound rock,

(a) shall be supported, where necessary in the opinion of the professional engineer, by rock bolts or wire mesh;

(b) shall be inspected daily by a competent worker; and

(c) shall have all loose pieces of rock removed. O. Reg. 213/91, s. 307 (3).

(2) The walls of an excavation cut in rock shall be supported by rock anchors or wire mesh if support is necessary to prevent the spalling of loose rock. O. Reg. 213/91, s. 232 (2).

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/910213

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You're not far off on that, not for a boulder, but those steps are very dangerous! I'm amazed a woman in high heels hasn't caught them and gone flying down one of the stairways.

The rise of the stairs aren't quite right (especially relative to the run) I think - they are uncomfortable to walk up or even down.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Great, because the route isn't sh*tty enough as it is already. What should I expect next, a giant boulder running down the stairs?

(Disney/Lucasfilm)

AoD

You know, this post exemplifies why AoD should not be allowed to get too busy at work!

 

[steveintoronto]

The rise of the stairs aren't quite right (especially relative to the run) I think - they are uncomfortable to walk up or even down.

AoD

Yeah, something's off on them. Just out of interest, I'm going to take a tape measure with me next time down there, might even be today, and measure the rise and tread of the steps. It's not only 'not right' for humans, the Big Black Lab also has trouble with them, and he's good on stairs. I've caught my boot heel on them a couple of times when carrying a bike down them, and caught my balance just in time. If someone doesn't have good reflexes, they're in trouble on them.

 

[drum118]

Yeah, something's off on them. Just out of interest, I'm going to take a tape measure with me next time down there, might even be today, and measure the rise and tread of the steps. It's not only 'not right' for humans, the Big Black Lab also has trouble with them, and he's good on stairs. I've caught my boot heel on them a couple of times when carrying a bike down them, and caught my balance just in time. If someone doesn't have good reflexes, they're in trouble on them.

The existing stairs were built when there was no standards for width and hight like there is today and are being rebuilt. Metrolinx stairs have the minimum width you can have and they can cause issues going down them. 8" is maximum hight you can have today, but can be less to 4-6 inches or 100-150 mm.

 

[steveintoronto]

The existing stairs were built when there was no standards for width and hight like there is today and are being rebuilt. Metrolinx stairs have the minimum width you can have and they can cause issues going down them. 8" is maximum hight you can have today, but can be less to 4-6 inches or 100-150 mm.

Didn't make it down there today to measure, but will do so, but many thanks for the input that buttresses the impression. Psychologically, there's something wrong with them as well as physical details. They're more akin to emergency exit egress rather than normal duty stairs.

Just Googling now to see what I can find, surprisingly little is showing for the stairways themselves, albeit I have the formulas for acceptable architectural parameters ( https://www.calculator.net/stair-calculator.html and lots more sites on the web) but this does show for Union in general:

Capacity Analysis of the Union Station Rail Corridor using Integrated Rail and Pedestrian Simulation by Yishu Pu
A thesis submitted in conformity with the requirements for the degree of Masters of Applied Science Department of Civil Engineering University of Toronto © Copyright by Yishu Pu 2017
[...]
1.1.3 Pedestrian Movements
As train and passenger volume increase, the most common concern in considering this future scenario is whether the station infrastructure could support the passenger volume increase. A regular commuter rail train can carry a passenger volume up to 5000, the impact on passenger crowding on the platform when the train arrives at the railway station could be disastrous. This is especially true for stations with limited platform and staircase capacity. In these cases, not only passengers’ level of service at station could be significantly reduced, the crowding on the platform could also pose serious safety concerns as train volume increases. A considerable number of accidents of track level injuries due to over-crowding on the platforms have been reported around the world in the past decades.

1.1.4 Interactive effects between train movements and pedestrian movements
High-frequency rail transit services are known to be extremely sensitive to delays, which would in turn affect overall train throughput. As train and passenger volume increases, the aforementioned two movements would be expected to interact on the platform level. For stations with limited platform and staircase capacity, dwell times and consequently line capacity could be adversely affected with rising levels of passenger volumes, while the train frequency and arrival patterns could adversely affect passenger crowding condition on the platform.

1.1.5 Current capacity analysis practices
It is found that many studies only focus on either train movements or pedestrian movements. The interactive effects between the two movements have been largely ignored, or rather cannot be captured by current approaches. For a complex railway station, it is equally important to study not only pedestrian and train movements, but also how the two interact in order to make the right decision of investment.

1.2 Research Objectives
The main objective of this thesis is to identify the necessity of studying both train and pedestrian movements, as well as the interactive effects between the two, when performing a comprehensive capacity analysis of a complex railway station. An integrated crowd and transit simulation model would be beneficial to assist the analysis. In order to demonstrate such benefits, traditional railway capacity analysis of both analytical methods and railway simulation are necessary to be evaluated and applied to a complex node area, namely Toronto’s Union Rail Station. Results could then be compared among these methods to offer recommendation of their applicability, as well as to be further applied to scenarios where pedestrian movements are taken into consideration in the integrated crowd and transit simulation model.
[...]

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/79149/3/Pu_Yishu_201711_MAS_thesis.pdf

See also by same author:
Capacity Analysis of the Union Station Rail Corridor using Integrated Rail and Pedestrian Simulation
http://www.opentrack.ch/opentrack/downloads/USRC-Thesis-Presentation-Yishu.pdf