Garuda
Active Member
There's what? 3 double decker buses to meet the GO trains at mount Pleasant now on weekends? The demand is there and at some point it becomes more economical to run trains instead of at least 3 buses.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Jonny5
Senior Member
I have no direct knowledge here, but these one off events are predictable and planned months in advance, so while it may be possible to coordinate with CP for them, it may still not be possible for regular service every weekend.
Even if there is no track use constraint, those few one-off events also require crews and staff, but again only as a one-off which can be planned for well in advance using the existing pool of workers. If you are adding this service for 52 weekends a year it requires more full time staff and that is a budget increase. I am not commenting here on whether it is justified or not, simply that can be a likely reason up the chain of the organisation to why it doesn't happen specifically now. Even with spare equipment, you need spare train crews and customer service staff willing to work weekend hours to run it and to pay them for it.
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robmausser
Senior Member
Like said earlier, the reason is not demand but weekends being used for track upgrade construction.
Once that work is done weekend train service will start/
ShonTron
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Bramalea is where the buses to/from Waterloo meet the trains. Mount Pleasant only has the milk run bus to Georgetown and Guelph
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The passing tracks currently under construction (Breslau, Guelph, Acton, Georgetown) will provide a capacity of 2 trains per hour per direction. This will allow peak period service to still be every 30 minutes as it is today, while counter-peak service runs hourly. Outside of peak periods there will be 1 GO train per hour and the additional capacity can be used by Via and CN.
For the off-peak service to also run every 30 minutes, many additional passing locations would be required between Kitchener and Georgetown for Via and CN. With the planned grade separation near Mount Pleasant there should be enough capacity along the CN line with the existing plans considering the intent is already to have 30 min or better all day service there.
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urbancog
Active Member
Just to temper expectations, as far as I know, no active construction is occurring on the Kitchener Line west of Bramalea right now.
The RfP for construction of Work Package 2A of the Guelph Subdivision upgrades is scheduled for release this month:
"Kitchener Extension | Guelph Subdivision Package 2A: Track and signals work, grading, drainage, and utility relocations in the Town of Halton Hills (Acton) in support of Kitchener GO service extension."
The RfP for construction of Work Package 4 of the Guelph Subdivision upgrades is scheduled for release 4Q2024 (Oct - Dec 2024):
"Kitchener Line Extension | Guelph Subdivision Package 4: Track and signals work, platform work, grading, drainage, and utility relocations in support of Kitchener GO service extension." Thought to be the tie in of track to the new platform at Guelph Central Station.
I think this corresponds to the new infrastructure needed to support hourly counter peak / off-peak service described by reaperexpress above. Allowing time to award the work and for construction, perhaps we will see hourly service to Kitchener in 2026.
There are other work packages listed for the Kitchener line, including: an island platform at Georgetown Station, removal of the north platform at Mt Pleasant to make room for a 4th track, and construction of a new layover yard between Winston Churchill Boulevard & Heritage Road. It was also noted in a Metrolinx Board Mtg that CN has requested proposals for the design of upgrades to the Halton Subdivision (Georgetown to Bramalea), which may include the grade separated junction located between the Credit River bridge and Winston Churchill Boulevard and additional tracks (3rd track at Brampton Station, 4th track elsewhere). These would support even better service but will take 4 years at least to deliver at the current investment level.
The RfP for construction of Work Package 2A of the Guelph Subdivision upgrades is scheduled for release this month:
"Kitchener Extension | Guelph Subdivision Package 2A: Track and signals work, grading, drainage, and utility relocations in the Town of Halton Hills (Acton) in support of Kitchener GO service extension."
The RfP for construction of Work Package 4 of the Guelph Subdivision upgrades is scheduled for release 4Q2024 (Oct - Dec 2024):
"Kitchener Line Extension | Guelph Subdivision Package 4: Track and signals work, platform work, grading, drainage, and utility relocations in support of Kitchener GO service extension." Thought to be the tie in of track to the new platform at Guelph Central Station.
I think this corresponds to the new infrastructure needed to support hourly counter peak / off-peak service described by reaperexpress above. Allowing time to award the work and for construction, perhaps we will see hourly service to Kitchener in 2026.
There are other work packages listed for the Kitchener line, including: an island platform at Georgetown Station, removal of the north platform at Mt Pleasant to make room for a 4th track, and construction of a new layover yard between Winston Churchill Boulevard & Heritage Road. It was also noted in a Metrolinx Board Mtg that CN has requested proposals for the design of upgrades to the Halton Subdivision (Georgetown to Bramalea), which may include the grade separated junction located between the Credit River bridge and Winston Churchill Boulevard and additional tracks (3rd track at Brampton Station, 4th track elsewhere). These would support even better service but will take 4 years at least to deliver at the current investment level.
SkylineHorizons
Active Member
But still just 2 west of the station?
Which unfortunately means we're probably looking at about double that/8 years until actual completion when factoring in all the expected delays to come.
nfitz
Superstar
Where's the grade separation going?
urbancog
Active Member
Metrolinx has expropriated parts of these starred land parcels west of Winston Churchill Boulevard (and east of the Credit bridge). It was confirmed in a land tribunal decision that these are for the grade separation.
urbancog
Active Member
A Metrolinx presentation to the City of Brampton included this diagram suggesting that at build-out (4-8 years in the future) there would be 4 tracks - two over the grade separation for GO and two under the separation for CN. The Credit bridge is currently built for 3 tracks, with 2 installed.
The current signal bridges between Mt Pleasant and Georgetown are set up for 3 tracks (with 2 present), and possibly the 3rd track might be installed before the grade separation is built but
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Allandale25
Senior Member
There's also a contract that was awarded to design the third platform at the Brampton Station.
https://www.metrolinx.merx.com/public/solicitations/2446875513/abstract?origin=0
Allandale25
Senior Member
That track plan diagram wasn't in the presentation Metrolinx gave to the City of Brampton. It was in this "Metrolinx has published a set of documents containing the “Initial Business Case” for the GO Transit Regional Express Rail (GO/RER) network." and specifically Appendix A.
GO/RER Details Emerge in Business Case Analysis
Metrolinx has published a set of documents containing the “Initial Business Case” for the GO Transit Regional Express Rail (GO/RER) network. Updated Dec. 13, 2022: Due to a reorganizati…
stevemunro.ca
ARG1
Senior Member
Kitchener-Waterloo is not only a major university town, but also a rapidly growing tech hub with major companies like Google setting up shop. As such even if there isn't demand today, there absolutely will be demand within 5-10 years.
It also helps that as a major uni town, it has absolutely massive bursts of demand. Earlier this year I had to travel from Highway 407 Station to Waterloo on Sunday, and experienced how a completely packed double decker 41 fully emptied out with everyone marching out to get on the 30A at Bramalea (for the love of god bring back the 25F already). It also didn't help that the ride itself was slow due to all of the people driving to KW on the 401. It wasn't even a long weekend or reading week or anything, this was just a run of the mill Sunday.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
That also has significant on line local traffic potential if the service is anything like frequent. This is a corridor that needs frequency independent of it's capacity requirements.
crs1026
Superstar
Stop-and-go traffic on 401 from Tremaine to Town Line is now a 2-way, all-day, 7/week reality. That line could fill 30 minute trains today, 15 at peak. Ridiculous that ML isn't moving faster.
- Paul