GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[drum118]

can you confirm these talks which northern light says are happening behind the scenes providing all day 30 min service on the Milton line in the billion dollar range.

There has been an plan for the Milton Line for all day service, but CP is the problem for it. You are looking at over a billion as there needs to be a fly under at Humber to get from the south side to the north side to not interfere with CP trains like today.

Streetsville is a major issue and very costly to deal with it.

 

[sixrings]

There has been an plan for the Milton Line for all day service, but CP is the problem for it. You are looking at over a billion as there needs to be a fly under at Humber to get from the south side to the north side to not interfere with CP trains like today.

Streetsville is a major issue and very costly to deal with it.

So I shouldn’t hold my breath that people are talking about something. Until checks are written it’s cheaper to talk.

 

[anb]

Where is any believable evidence (not wishful thinking) that Milton will have 15 min or better service.

I was just being satire, just saying that they aren't going to do anything with RH for at least for a very long time. Now especially as the subway is coming up to Richmond Hill, and with connections at RHC/Finch to GO anyway, there is even less demand for the line.

Once Upon a time,

the GO 2020 Strategic Planning document did call for 2WAD to Meadowvale only.

The 2008 Big Move Strategic Plan called for 2WAD to Milton within 15 years

The 2012 Big Move Update moved this to a 16- to 25 year horizon

It remains as Project #53 in the 2041 Regional Transportation Plan

- Paul

So what will be the most realistic start/end point if we ended up getting all day service? They have Cooksville for Hurontario LRT, Erindale for a closer connection to MCC, Streetsville for a more historic area feel, and Meadowvale for a connection to its town center area. Lisgar and Milton itself are fine as well but its highly unlikely they would go for the entire line at once. Doubt they would push it any further beyond Erindale to start because as mentioned by someone above there are some complications around Streetsville.

 

[Sunnyside]

There has been an plan for the Milton Line for all day service, but CP is the problem for it. You are looking at over a billion as there needs to be a fly under at Humber to get from the south side to the north side to not interfere with CP trains like today.

Streetsville is a major issue and very costly to deal with it.

Didn’t the feds contribute $1 billion to upgrading the Milton Line? Has that vanished?

I was just being satire, just saying that they aren't going to do anything with RH for at least for a very long time. Now especially as the subway is coming up to Richmond Hill, and with connections at RHC/Finch to GO anyway, there is even less demand for the line.



So what will be the most realistic start/end point if we ended up getting all day service? They have Cooksville for Hurontario LRT, Erindale for a closer connection to MCC, Streetsville for a more historic area feel, and Meadowvale for a connection to its town center area. Lisgar and Milton itself are fine as well but its highly unlikely they would go for the entire line at once. Doubt they would push it any further beyond Erindale to start because as mentioned by someone above there are some complications around Streetsville.

It’s not like Milton doesn’t have potential… it’s just not urgently necessary or something already committed to. With limited funds, those are the two criteria for any transit expansion here it seems, and even that isn’t a guarantee. I don’t doubt that many projects should be underway, but the question is really ‘should we upgrade Milton? Or build whatever else is needed with the same money/ manpower?’. Accepting this reality makes accepting snubbed projects more palatable.

So to answer the question, money and resources (industry capacity) will be available whenever currently U/C projects are done. If I had to give a date for “next wave” plans to begin planning/start, I’d pin it at 2026 and/or 2031. Milton will be one of many projects considered to go forward. Given that some rumblings for next wave projects are appearing behind the scenes now, Milton may be later than not. Tough to say though really.

 

[sixrings]

Didn’t the feds contribute $1 billion to upgrading the Milton Line? Has that vanished?


It’s not like Milton doesn’t have potential… it’s just not urgently necessary or something already committed to. With limited funds, those are the two criteria for any transit expansion here it seems, and even that isn’t a guarantee. I don’t doubt that many projects should be underway, but the question is really ‘should we upgrade Milton? Or build whatever else is needed with the same money/ manpower?’. Accepting this reality makes accepting snubbed projects more palatable.

So to answer the question, money and resources (industry capacity) will be available whenever currently U/C projects are done. If I had to give a date for “next wave” plans to begin planning/start, I’d pin it at 2026 and/or 2031. Milton will be one of many projects considered to go forward. Given that some rumblings for next wave projects are appearing behind the scenes now, Milton may be later than not. Tough to say though really.

The Milton line is the busiest non lakeshore line.

 

[crs1026]

Didn’t the feds contribute $1 billion to upgrading the Milton Line? Has that vanished?

They announced that they had earmarked funds from an infrastructure spending account, but I suspect they knew that there would not be any appetite at the Provincial level. It was a pretty gratuitous bit of photo-opmanship, but almost meddlesome. I wonder if the Province quietly complained.

One would have to check and see if that fund met its spending goal through other projects. PS - some funds still available.- $2.6B of $4.7B has been spoken for.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

The Milton line is the busiest non lakeshore line.

Not since 2017

But, I think ridership is a poor metric to determine whether a line should be improved or not. Kitchener's ridership has only shot up because it offers more trains per hour in the last years. So you can't keep giving all the lines that have the most ridership the most attention because they have the most ridership because they receive the most attention. Its a feedback loop.

 

[drum118]

Was involved in a meeting for the Meadowvale area and it clearly show that the Lisgar Station should be the all day station as it will offer better service to the employment area as well the low density community with poor transit service compare to Meadowvale.

Since the Milton Line is limit to x trains a day in each direction, the ridership will be lower than lines that offer all days service and those who have weekend service.. If all day service was on the Milton Line today, it would rank as the 2nd busy line.

 

[Metroscapes]

Not since 2017
View attachment 466606
But, I think ridership is a poor metric to determine whether a line should be improved or not. Kitchener's ridership has only shot up because it offers more trains per hour in the last years. So you can't keep giving all the lines that have the most ridership the most attention because they have the most ridership because they receive the most attention. Its a feedback loop.

Those stats are in a sore need of an update.

 

[44 North]

Not since 2017

But, I think ridership is a poor metric to determine whether a line should be improved or not. Kitchener's ridership has only shot up because it offers more trains per hour in the last years. So you can't keep giving all the lines that have the most ridership the most attention because they have the most ridership because they receive the most attention. Its a feedback loop.

Good metric: ridership/km. Or, ridership per km divided by the frequency.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I am a strong believer in evidence; facts are important.

In this case, I can't provide a public-facing document for you.

However, I can say this; there is a project plan with costed details, for delivering 2-way, All-day, 30 minute service to Milton. Whether or not the province pulls the trigger on funding it in the near term I honestly
couldn't say. There is no reason you couldn't do greater frequency, but I have neither seen nor heard pf a document planning for it circulating.

Hopefully, we hear more details soon. It's long past time for Milton to get service.

 

[crs1026]

I’m not sure the stats are that meaningful.. Milton was a dense commuter zone pre covid, but the ridership potential for 2WAD may or may not correlate to peak travel. Peak ridership was partly office workers, and that ridership won’t be coming back.

As valuable as the GO line may be, I would look for a new business case, and it’s quite reasonable to ask if this line outweighs other worthwhile priorities within Halton Peel.

- Paul

 

[Deadpool X]

But all day go service to the downtown area of the sixth biggest city in the country is needed

I didn't realize that overnight Mississauga passed Edmonton that has more than a million people to become the sixth largest city in the country. I need to keep myself more updated.

I do not have a Mississauga persecution complex. We have a great city which has grown to be the largest suburb of Toronto and a city of sorts in its own right. But for whatever reason cooksville or MCC is being shortchanged. I’m not here to argue who’s to blame for that. Whether it’s Bonnie, the province or the feds. I don’t really care. It just needs to be fixed. Brampton has all day GO. Scarborough has a subway extension. Transit wise i don’t know what either place would have a persecution complex about.

That Brampton all day GO you are referring to passes through Mississauga (at Malton) and so does the all day Lakeshore West line which also happens to be the busiest on the network.

The Province is not spending money in Mississauga. I wish they could build an LRT line in Mississauga, or expand that tiny 6 lane 401 in Mississauga and Milton, or electrify a couple of GO lines passing through Mississauga. One can only dream.

 

[anb]

If you really look at it, it’s not like Mississauga is completely lacking transit outside of the Milton line. We still have the Transitway, Hurontario LRT (soon), Lakeshore West and Malton on the Kitchener line. There’s 3 GO train lines running to different parts of the city and now 2 of them will see all day 7 day service at their respective stations in Sauga.

Milton line just cuts through the entire city and arguably connects it better than the transit mentioned, but even then its not the biggest issue if we are left without it. The GO bus route 21 reroutings also helps a lot in a sense because it literally serves the Milton line stations. Its like you have 2 technical express routes now if you just either take it in as a shuttle to the Lakeshore line and stops in between if you’re only traveling within Mississauga. Basically its not like the city is higher order transit deprived unlike certain other places in the GTA that desperately need anything at all.

 

[Sunnyside]

The Milton line is the busiest non lakeshore line.

No denying that… and I’d agree it should be upgraded- hell, electrified as an ultimate goal (somehow, someday). Though, when your competing with the region’s LRT, subway and GO expansions, would you, as the provincial government, prioritize Milton over, say, the YNSE? Or the Hamilton LRT? The answer isn’t as clear cut anymore.

I would be more eager to jump on the bandwagon for Milton to be a top priority if it was actually a small change that could be done quickly…