GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Monarch Butterfly]

As per always discussed, the issue is the southern half of the RH line that runs along the Don River.

Its prone to flooding

View attachment 466233

The work needed to fix this problem is quite expensive, and they don't want to pump more money into the rest of the line (electrification) until its fixed.

Personally I think they should buy a bunch of DMU's and run more consistent all day service along it, rather than electrify.

You could even just run from Bloomington to Oriole and have people transfer at Sheppard Leslie. This is what Montreal does with the St.Jerome line, during off-peak the trains stop at Parc station and you have to transfer to the Metro to get downtown.

If GO could create rail connections in West Toronto and Leaside, they could have emergency trackage available in case of future Don Valley River flooding. With transfers to Line 1 at North Toronto. For later use by a GO Midtown corridor.

From link.

 

[drum118]

So it is not be rerouted to MCC like Drum suggests.

There was never a plan to service MCC by rail, but I and other have offer away to do it. There was some talks a decade ago about looking at an bypass to MCC with a few councilors calling for such route between Milton and MCC that went no where.

To do what I have proposed would cost somewhere between $2-3B.

I have no idea when the proposal first surface for a 3rd track in the Milton corridor, but it was to be in place by 2011 if I reminder correctly. By 2007, a 3rd track existed between Humber and Etobicoke Creek as well between Confederation and north of the 403. that service the Kipling and Erindale Station. There was a 3rd track between Cawthra and Hurontario as a storage track that could be upgraded to mainline standards. Don't recalled when ML built the extra bridges over Cawthra to allow for 4 tracks.

Lisgar Station was built as an centre and side platform with CP having 2 tracks on the southside of the existing track for the platform today. A tunnel, stairs and elevators for it was to be added at a future date.

Meadowvale was to see all day service with Milton down the road at some future date.

Wynne 2014 election transit platform call for the Milton Line to be upgrade to 4 tracks with a fly under at Humber at $2b+ and be in service by 2021, with it disappearing after the election.

Mississauga Road Grade Separation is a major issues as the Mill is to remain with service by CP and will require a new road to it as well existing places. This will require a fair number of homes that will have to be remove to do everything that needs to be done. A number of roads in Streetsville will have to be close as there is no way to grade separate them..

The current easy and cheap way to service MCC by rail to to use a Tram-Train using Hurontario LRT line.

The bridge over Hurontario St is supposed to heritage and would see a single track built on both side of it to support a 4 track corridor. ML rebuilt Cooksville station for a 3rd track on the northside of it..

 

[sixrings]

There was never a plan to service MCC by rail, but I and other have offer away to do it. There was some talks a decade ago about looking at an bypass to MCC with a few councilors calling for such route between Milton and MCC that went no where.

To do what I have proposed would cost somewhere between $2-3B.

I have no idea when the proposal first surface for a 3rd track in the Milton corridor, but it was to be in place by 2011 if I reminder correctly. By 2007, a 3rd track existed between Humber and Etobicoke Creek as well between Confederation and north of the 403. that service the Kipling and Erindale Station. There was a 3rd track between Cawthra and Hurontario as a storage track that could be upgraded to mainline standards. Don't recalled when ML built the extra bridges over Cawthra to allow for 4 tracks.

Lisgar Station was built as an centre and side platform with CP having 2 tracks on the southside of the existing track for the platform today. A tunnel, stairs and elevators for it was to be added at a future date.

Meadowvale was to see all day service with Milton down the road at some future date.

Wynne 2014 election transit platform call for the Milton Line to be upgrade to 4 tracks with a fly under at Humber at $2b+ and be in service by 2021, with it disappearing after the election.

Mississauga Road Grade Separation is a major issues as the Mill is to remain with service by CP and will require a new road to it as well existing places. This will require a fair number of homes that will have to be remove to do everything that needs to be done. A number of roads in Streetsville will have to be close as there is no way to grade separate them..

The current easy and cheap way to service MCC by rail to to use a Tram-Train using Hurontario LRT line.

The bridge over Hurontario St is supposed to heritage and would see a single track built on both side of it to support a 4 track corridor. ML rebuilt Cooksville station for a 3rd track on the northside of it..

can you confirm these talks which northern light says are happening behind the scenes providing all day 30 min service on the Milton line in the billion dollar range.

 

[drum118]

can you confirm these talks which northern light says are happening behind the scenes providing all day 30 min service on the Milton line in the billion dollar range.

There has been an plan for the Milton Line for all day service, but CP is the problem for it. You are looking at over a billion as there needs to be a fly under at Humber to get from the south side to the north side to not interfere with CP trains like today.

Streetsville is a major issue and very costly to deal with it.

 

[sixrings]

There has been an plan for the Milton Line for all day service, but CP is the problem for it. You are looking at over a billion as there needs to be a fly under at Humber to get from the south side to the north side to not interfere with CP trains like today.

Streetsville is a major issue and very costly to deal with it.

So I shouldn’t hold my breath that people are talking about something. Until checks are written it’s cheaper to talk.

 

[anb]

Where is any believable evidence (not wishful thinking) that Milton will have 15 min or better service.

I was just being satire, just saying that they aren't going to do anything with RH for at least for a very long time. Now especially as the subway is coming up to Richmond Hill, and with connections at RHC/Finch to GO anyway, there is even less demand for the line.

Once Upon a time,

the GO 2020 Strategic Planning document did call for 2WAD to Meadowvale only.

The 2008 Big Move Strategic Plan called for 2WAD to Milton within 15 years

The 2012 Big Move Update moved this to a 16- to 25 year horizon

It remains as Project #53 in the 2041 Regional Transportation Plan

- Paul

So what will be the most realistic start/end point if we ended up getting all day service? They have Cooksville for Hurontario LRT, Erindale for a closer connection to MCC, Streetsville for a more historic area feel, and Meadowvale for a connection to its town center area. Lisgar and Milton itself are fine as well but its highly unlikely they would go for the entire line at once. Doubt they would push it any further beyond Erindale to start because as mentioned by someone above there are some complications around Streetsville.

 

[Sunnyside]

There has been an plan for the Milton Line for all day service, but CP is the problem for it. You are looking at over a billion as there needs to be a fly under at Humber to get from the south side to the north side to not interfere with CP trains like today.

Streetsville is a major issue and very costly to deal with it.

Didn’t the feds contribute $1 billion to upgrading the Milton Line? Has that vanished?

I was just being satire, just saying that they aren't going to do anything with RH for at least for a very long time. Now especially as the subway is coming up to Richmond Hill, and with connections at RHC/Finch to GO anyway, there is even less demand for the line.



So what will be the most realistic start/end point if we ended up getting all day service? They have Cooksville for Hurontario LRT, Erindale for a closer connection to MCC, Streetsville for a more historic area feel, and Meadowvale for a connection to its town center area. Lisgar and Milton itself are fine as well but its highly unlikely they would go for the entire line at once. Doubt they would push it any further beyond Erindale to start because as mentioned by someone above there are some complications around Streetsville.

It’s not like Milton doesn’t have potential… it’s just not urgently necessary or something already committed to. With limited funds, those are the two criteria for any transit expansion here it seems, and even that isn’t a guarantee. I don’t doubt that many projects should be underway, but the question is really ‘should we upgrade Milton? Or build whatever else is needed with the same money/ manpower?’. Accepting this reality makes accepting snubbed projects more palatable.

So to answer the question, money and resources (industry capacity) will be available whenever currently U/C projects are done. If I had to give a date for “next wave” plans to begin planning/start, I’d pin it at 2026 and/or 2031. Milton will be one of many projects considered to go forward. Given that some rumblings for next wave projects are appearing behind the scenes now, Milton may be later than not. Tough to say though really.

 

[sixrings]

Didn’t the feds contribute $1 billion to upgrading the Milton Line? Has that vanished?


It’s not like Milton doesn’t have potential… it’s just not urgently necessary or something already committed to. With limited funds, those are the two criteria for any transit expansion here it seems, and even that isn’t a guarantee. I don’t doubt that many projects should be underway, but the question is really ‘should we upgrade Milton? Or build whatever else is needed with the same money/ manpower?’. Accepting this reality makes accepting snubbed projects more palatable.

So to answer the question, money and resources (industry capacity) will be available whenever currently U/C projects are done. If I had to give a date for “next wave” plans to begin planning/start, I’d pin it at 2026 and/or 2031. Milton will be one of many projects considered to go forward. Given that some rumblings for next wave projects are appearing behind the scenes now, Milton may be later than not. Tough to say though really.

The Milton line is the busiest non lakeshore line.

 

[crs1026]

Didn’t the feds contribute $1 billion to upgrading the Milton Line? Has that vanished?

They announced that they had earmarked funds from an infrastructure spending account, but I suspect they knew that there would not be any appetite at the Provincial level. It was a pretty gratuitous bit of photo-opmanship, but almost meddlesome. I wonder if the Province quietly complained.

One would have to check and see if that fund met its spending goal through other projects. PS - some funds still available.- $2.6B of $4.7B has been spoken for.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

The Milton line is the busiest non lakeshore line.

Not since 2017

But, I think ridership is a poor metric to determine whether a line should be improved or not. Kitchener's ridership has only shot up because it offers more trains per hour in the last years. So you can't keep giving all the lines that have the most ridership the most attention because they have the most ridership because they receive the most attention. Its a feedback loop.

 

[drum118]

Was involved in a meeting for the Meadowvale area and it clearly show that the Lisgar Station should be the all day station as it will offer better service to the employment area as well the low density community with poor transit service compare to Meadowvale.

Since the Milton Line is limit to x trains a day in each direction, the ridership will be lower than lines that offer all days service and those who have weekend service.. If all day service was on the Milton Line today, it would rank as the 2nd busy line.

 

[Metroscapes]

Not since 2017
View attachment 466606
But, I think ridership is a poor metric to determine whether a line should be improved or not. Kitchener's ridership has only shot up because it offers more trains per hour in the last years. So you can't keep giving all the lines that have the most ridership the most attention because they have the most ridership because they receive the most attention. Its a feedback loop.

Those stats are in a sore need of an update.

 

[44 North]

Not since 2017

But, I think ridership is a poor metric to determine whether a line should be improved or not. Kitchener's ridership has only shot up because it offers more trains per hour in the last years. So you can't keep giving all the lines that have the most ridership the most attention because they have the most ridership because they receive the most attention. Its a feedback loop.

Good metric: ridership/km. Or, ridership per km divided by the frequency.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I am a strong believer in evidence; facts are important.

In this case, I can't provide a public-facing document for you.

However, I can say this; there is a project plan with costed details, for delivering 2-way, All-day, 30 minute service to Milton. Whether or not the province pulls the trigger on funding it in the near term I honestly
couldn't say. There is no reason you couldn't do greater frequency, but I have neither seen nor heard pf a document planning for it circulating.

Hopefully, we hear more details soon. It's long past time for Milton to get service.

 

[crs1026]

I’m not sure the stats are that meaningful.. Milton was a dense commuter zone pre covid, but the ridership potential for 2WAD may or may not correlate to peak travel. Peak ridership was partly office workers, and that ridership won’t be coming back.

As valuable as the GO line may be, I would look for a new business case, and it’s quite reasonable to ask if this line outweighs other worthwhile priorities within Halton Peel.

- Paul