GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Urban Sky]

I doubt that Richmond Hill will ever get all-day service. There are no passing opportunities south of the CN York Sub, and the northern section of the route is a busy CN mainline. It would require a lot of investment from Metrolinx for minimal gain.

If that was true, every time the Canadian arrives during the pm peak would play havoc:

 

[ARG1]

If that was true, every time the Canadian arrives during the pm peak would play havoc:
View attachment 386772

I assume there's very strict timing associate with it.

Before The Richmond Hill Line was extended to Gormley, there wasn't anywhere to park the trains overnight, so they actually deadheaded all of the trains back to Union, and would deadhead immediately after dropping passengers off at Richmond Hill, while there were still trains going from Union. However I assumed that this return trip also involved having the train wait a while at the furthest south passing loop available at around Doncaster, so it wasn't exactly a fast trip down to Union.

 

[Krypto98]

I doubt that Richmond Hill will ever get all-day service. There are no passing opportunities south of the CN York Sub, and the northern section of the route is a busy CN mainline. It would require a lot of investment from Metrolinx for minimal gain.

Milton will certainly get more train service, but again, it is constrained by CP’s operations. It will need another track through much of Mississauga to make it work, but that is planned.

There is a passing track south of oriole and I think near cherry.

Milton hourly to Erindale is theoretically feasible but I don't think CP would like go trains crossing CP Humber every 30 minutes

 

[reaperexpress]

I doubt that Richmond Hill will ever get all-day service. There are no passing opportunities south of the CN York Sub, and the northern section of the route is a busy CN mainline. It would require a lot of investment from Metrolinx for minimal gain.

There are 4 passing opportunities south of the CN York Sub. The map below shows the double-tracked segments.

Prior to the pandemic, there was a train which deadheaded southbound from Richmond Hill starting around 16:00, meeting the northbound PM trains at the sidings.

 

[smallspy]

I doubt that Richmond Hill will ever get all-day service. There are no passing opportunities south of the CN York Sub, and the northern section of the route is a busy CN mainline. It would require a lot of investment from Metrolinx for minimal gain.

Richmond Hill almost had limited mid-day service in 2019 and again in 2020. A single trainset is all that would be needed to run an every-2-hours schedule from Union to Old Cummer. It's not much, but it's enough to keep buses from having to come downtown, and wouldn't interfere with CN's operations at all.

Dan

 

[ShonTron]

Richmond Hill almost had limited mid-day service in 2019 and again in 2020. A single trainset is all that would be needed to run an every-2-hours schedule from Union to Old Cummer. It's not much, but it's enough to keep buses from having to come downtown, and wouldn't interfere with CN's operations at all.

Dan

Ah, yeah, I forgot about some of the passing sidings, which were definitively needed to allow the peak service trains to deadhead back before the yard north of Gormley was opened.

For Richmond Hill, yeah, I get how running a train every two hours, when the bus service is minimal to begin with, could make sense. For Milton, though, I'd definitely prefer the frequent bus service than a train that ran less than hourly.

 

[smallspy]

For Richmond Hill, yeah, I get how running a train every two hours, when the bus service is minimal to begin with, could make sense.

From what I can recall of the plans, it wasn't just the Richmond Hill buses that would connect to the service though.

401 buses would also stop at Oriole Station to connect to the trains - when the trains were running, that is.

For Milton, though, I'd definitely prefer the frequent bus service than a train that ran less than hourly.

So would most people, I'd think. Which is why the weekend service plans for Milton called for at least hourly service.

Of course, they'd happen to be in the same service windows as the weekday service would, so they would be of limited utility. But I guess they - Metrolinx - could at least cheer the fact that more trains were running.

Dan

 

[robmausser]

There are 4 passing opportunities south of the CN York Sub. The map below shows the double-tracked segments.
View attachment 386788

Prior to the pandemic, there was a train which deadheaded southbound from Richmond Hill starting around 16:00, meeting the northbound PM trains at the sidings.
View attachment 386796

Do you have a map like this showing Barrie and Stouffville with what double tracking they have as of today? im curious where progress has been left with those projects.

Also, it always surprised me why this section here couldnt be double tracked as theres the old track in place from the CP Don Branch.

Surprised they wouldnt retrack that area and get one long continuous double track all the way from Union.

 

[crs1026]

Do you have a map like this showing Barrie and Stouffville with what double tracking they have as of today? im curious where progress has been left with those projects.

Here you go.

The only operable double/passing track segments in operation are in green. Blue is areas where there is active track building in progress. You will note that there isn't a lot of passing capacity as yet. 2-way service is limited to hourly by what's there today. The Stouffville line is pretty close to having more capacity (although the leg from Kennedy to Union is problemmatic, thanks to construction). Barrie is just getting going.

- Paul

 

[ARG1]

Ah, yeah, I forgot about some of the passing sidings, which were definitively needed to allow the peak service trains to deadhead back before the yard north of Gormley was opened.

For Richmond Hill, yeah, I get how running a train every two hours, when the bus service is minimal to begin with, could make sense. For Milton, though, I'd definitely prefer the frequent bus service than a train that ran less than hourly.

It depends really. For people that need to travel to Toronto but aren't tied to a specific time period, the speed gained would be a huge help, regardless of how frequent the train is. Say you live near Erindale, and you want to travel downtown. The Milton Line can get you there in 40 mins, meanwhile the 21 takes 70 (from what I can tell - unfortunately GMaps shows vastly different numbers and routes depending on the time of day). With these time savings, a lot of people would gladly plan trips around the schedule of the train. Want to meet up with people and go to a restaurant? Get a reservation 15-20 mins after the train is scheduled to arrive at Union. Its not much, but its workable.

 

[Mr Finish Line]

Here you go.

The only operable double/passing track segments in operation are in green. Blue is areas where there is active track building in progress. You will note that there isn't a lot of passing capacity as yet. 2-way service is limited to hourly by what's there today. The Stouffville line is pretty close to having more capacity (although the leg from Kennedy to Union is problemmatic, thanks to construction). Barrie is just getting going.

- Paul

View attachment 386935

Thanks for this!

If you ride the Stouffville train between Unionville and Milliken you get to see the active double track section in action as it is used for the NB and SB trains to pass each other for the bidirectional hourly daytime service. In the blue section trains bounce back and forth between future NB and SB tracks, so for parts of the blue section you're on new track, e.g. at Agincourt Station.

 

[anb]

For Milton, though, I'd definitely prefer the frequent bus service than a train that ran less than hourly.

So would most people, I'd think. Which is why the weekend service plans for Milton called for at least hourly service.

Of course, they'd happen to be in the same service windows as the weekday service would, so they would be of limited utility. But I guess they - Metrolinx - could at least cheer the fact that more trains were running.

Dan

What would make the Milton buses more attractive is if they stopped at Kipling instead of Union. Same with Kitchener buses as well. This is why we need fare integration with GO and TTC, so we could rearrange the weekend service without there being any compromises. The long distance intercity buses can keep on using Union's bus terminal along with some GO buses that do make sense as to why they would still go there. When traffic gets back to its busy state and the Gardiner/DVP gets to insufferable levels of traffic again, I think this could be more preferred. We have Kipling, VMC, 407 and maybe Don Mills and STC as possible reroutings, as well as Downsview Park and Long Branch if the city actually allows GO buses to serve Toronto GO stations for once. Most of the buses will get replaced by weekend trains in the future anyways so it really doesn't matter where they go in the end.

 

[Allandale25]

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.

blog.metrolinx.com

 

[reaperexpress]

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.

blog.metrolinx.com

"Going to great lengths to avoid increasing frequency"

There, fixed it for them.


EDIT: The diagrams in the article are also incorrect. They show the locomotive pulling 4 cars out of the siding and backing them onto a 6-car set. But in fact what happens is that the locomotive takes its first 5 cars with it into the siding to slot those 4 cars between the accessibility car and the cab car. That way the accessibility car remains the 5th back from the locomotive. The text correctly describes this.

 

[ShonTron]

"Going to great lengths to avoid increasing frequency"

There, fixed it for them.

I had the same thought at first, but replacing four-car trains with six-car trains on the Richmond Hill line and six-car trains with eight- and ten-car trains is a significant improvement in capacity, and good signal that GO is preparing to get towards normalcy.

I wish they weren’t so tight-lipped about restoring bus and train trips.