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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

People need to realize that at some point, travel times become so long that people do not see the value in taking it. That is likely what is happening with the London GO Trains.

Niagara is the lone exception as it is a tourist draw of its own right and having direct service to and from Toronto is a win-win. Other than University Students, who would willingly sit on a train for 2 or more hours heading to London?

As was said here several times, if GO wants to do long haul service they need to services and comforts to go along with it. They will eventually need more comfortable seating with tables and snacks. Can you imagine taking a GO train to Ottawa?
 
Richard White said:
People need to realize that at some point, travel times become so long that people do not see the value in taking it. That is likely what is happening with the London GO Trains.

Niagara is the lone exception as it is a tourist draw of its own right and having direct service to and from Toronto is a win-win. Other than University Students, who would willingly sit on a train for 2 or more hours heading to London?

As was said here several times, if GO wants to do long haul service they need to services and comforts to go along with it. They will eventually need more comfortable seating with tables and snacks. Can you imagine taking a GO train to Ottawa?
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It shouldn't be that hard to double the track speed between London and Kitchener. Considering it was 4x at one point, but let's walk before we run.
 
Bordercollie said:
It shouldn't be that hard to double the track speed between London and Kitchener. Considering it was 4x at one point, but let's walk before we run.
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With the experiences made on the Kingston Sub, I don't see why any government (provincial or federal) would invest in upgrading the Western half of the Guelph Sub without acquiring it and placing it under public control first. That's why the current test period (and surviving it!) is so essential: because without pre-existing GO service no public ownership (the route is not important enough to VIA to expect the feds to buy it alone) and without public ownership none of the speed and capacity upgrades required to make this service useful will happen.

Those who believe that one should upgrade first before introducing service risk waiting forever...
 
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Urban Sky said:
... because without pre-existing GO service no public ownership (the route is not important enough to VIA to expect the feds to buy it alone) and without public ownership none of the speed and capacity upgrades required to make this service useful will happen.
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And yet the feds have purchased CN's Chatham to Windsor line.
 
Urban Sky said:
With the experiences made on the Kingston Sub, I don't see why any government (provincial or federal) would invest in upgrading the Western half of the Guelph Sub without acquiring it and placing it under public control first. That's why the current test period (and surviving it!) is so essential: because without pre-existing GO service no public ownership (the route is not important enough to VIA to expect the feds to buy it alone) and without public ownership none of the speed and capacity upgrades required to make this service useful will happen.
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Hence why so many of us are musing about Metrolinx or VIA purchasing the Kitchener-London corridor...
 
I just realized that the travel time between London and Toronto is estimated at 4 hours as per the GO transit website. This may be why not many people are using the service.

Who in there right mind would sit on a GO train for 4 hours unless they had no other options?
 
Richard White said:
I just realized that the travel time between London and Toronto is estimated at 4 hours as per the GO transit website. This may be why not many people are using the service.

Who in there right mind would sit on a GO train for 4 hours unless they had no other options?
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We've had a discussion here about that several times in the last few weeks.

The answer remains that this isn't for people coming from London to Union station - who'd obviously be taking VIA. It's for people from London to Kitchener. Or St. Marys to Guelph (which aren't as uncommon as you'd think given the regional hospital system there ... it's not unusual for Guelph residents to be shipped to London for some treatments, and even to St. Thomas). Or Stratford to Toronto.
 
Richard White said:
People need to realize that at some point, travel times become so long that people do not see the value in taking it. That is likely what is happening with the London GO Trains.

Niagara is the lone exception as it is a tourist draw of its own right and having direct service to and from Toronto is a win-win. Other than University Students, who would willingly sit on a train for 2 or more hours heading to London?

As was said here several times, if GO wants to do long haul service they need to services and comforts to go along with it. They will eventually need more comfortable seating with tables and snacks. Can you imagine taking a GO train to Ottawa?
Click to expand...
Exactly. If GO is going to operate more long-haul services, they need rolling stock that is a hybrid between their existing bi-levels and the coaches VIA offers. More comfortable seats, smaller vehicles, and maybe some food options (but not full service like VIA offers).

Personally, I think there should be 3 "tiers" of GO service:

1) RER for the Metro GTHA, using electrified vehicles running at high frequencies
2) "Classic" GO to the areas a little bit further out (Hamilton, Bowmanville, Kitchener), as well as for additional rush hour capacity and express trains
3) A GO/VIA hybrid service for those 2+ hour long trips to other metropolitan centres (London, Niagara Falls, Peterborough)
 
nfitz said:
We've had a discussion here about that several times in the last few weeks.

The answer remains that this isn't for people coming from London to Union station - who'd obviously be taking VIA. It's for people from London to Kitchener. Or St. Marys to Guelph (which aren't as uncommon as you'd think given the regional hospital system there ... it's not unusual for Guelph residents to be shipped to London for some treatments, and even to St. Thomas). Or Stratford to Toronto.
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Although the 4-hour travel time to Toronto is largely irrelevant since the service is primarily intended for regional trips within the corridor, the 2h12 travel time to cover just 94km from London to Kitchener is very relevant. GO might have been able to find customers for such a service if the alternative were the gridlock heading in and out of Toronto at rush hour, but there is no way they will attract any significant ridership with such slow service in southwestern Ontario where the roads are much less congested. For reference, the Toronto - Kitchener segment is 1h41 for 103 km, with 6 intermediate stops compared to 2.

There is absolutely no correlation between the level of ridership attracted by this "pilot" service and the level of ridership which would be attracted by a service with reasonable speed and frequency. As others have alluded to, the people who do choose to take the pathetic service GO currently offers west of Kitchener are outliers. You cannot determine the shape of a distribution based on outliers.
 
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Urban Sky said:
Out of the 494,064 people living within the London CMA, how many have commented on that article and why would such a small sample size be representative? People who hate something complain in the comment section of local newspapers, those who see the value of something start using it…
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There are 435,000 in the city alone and 560,000 in the metro area and London is one of the fastest growing cities in the country.

You are quite correct that some will always bitch and that "those who see value of something will start to use it"...................with just 30 riders a day, clearly Londoners have made their decision and see no value in it.
 
^^ How dare you!

Didn't you know that London has absolutely no services at all? Hell, Londoners should consider themselves lucky just to find a loaf of bread without having to make their way to the glorious GTA.

Londoners will NEVER embrace this service because it a shockingly poor {and nearly non-existent} one. Facts speak for themselves..........currently only 0.008% of Londoners are boarding this train everyday. This is why Londoners don't see this as a preliminary service of what is to come but rather a political move by GO & QP to prove that the service is not sustainable and hence give up the entire exercise but being able to say they gave it a try and it's lack of success is all Londoner's fault.
 
ssiguy2 said:
There are 435,000 in the city alone and 560,000 in the metro area and London is one of the fastest growing cities in the country.

You are quite correct that some will always bitch and that "those who see value of something will start to use it"...................with just 30 riders a day, clearly Londoners have made their decision and see no value in it.
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Since you never have the courtesy of acknowledging and responding to viewpoints which you happen to not agree with, I'll just dump the comment just above yours', since it says everything which has to be said to it:
reaperexpress said:
Although the 4-hour travel time to Toronto is largely irrelevant since the service is primarily intended for regional trips within the corridor, the 2h12 travel time to cover just 94km from London to Kitchener is very relevant. GO might have been able to find customers for such a service if the alternative were the gridlock heading in and out of Toronto at rush hour, but there is no way they will attract any significant ridership with such slow service in southwestern Ontario where the roads are much less congested. For reference, the Toronto - Kitchener segment is 1h41 for 103 km, with double the number of stops.

There is absolutely no correlation between the level of ridership attracted by this "pilot" service and the level of ridership which would be attracted by a service with reasonable speed and frequency. As others have alluded to, the people who do choose to take the pathetic service GO currently offers west of Kitchener are outliers. You cannot determine the shape of a distribution based on outliers.
Click to expand...


ssiguy2 said:
^^ How dare you!

Didn't you know that London has absolutely no services at all? Hell, Londoners should consider themselves lucky just to find a loaf of bread without having to make their way to the glorious GTA.

Londoners will NEVER embrace this service because it a shockingly poor {and nearly non-existent} one. Facts speak for themselves..........currently only 0.008% of Londoners are boarding this train everyday. This is why Londoners don't see this as a preliminary service of what is to come but rather a political move by GO & QP to prove that the service is not sustainable and hence give up the entire exercise but being able to say they gave it a try and it's lack of success is all Londoner's fault.
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Yawn, how often do we have to go through this? Nobody forces Londoners to take this service rather than just make do with the other services and modes they are already offered. However, turning down a sub-standard service (as in demanding that such service is terminated, as you seem to suggest) is more likely to delay than accelerate the arrival of an improved service, which better corresponds with the needs of the people living in glorious London (or having to got there). I've never lived in the GTHA, but I believe I would rather want to live in a city which has asked GO to improve rather than terminate the service it receives...
 
Urban Sky said:
Yawn, how often do we have to go through this? Nobody forces Londoners to take this service rather than just make do with the other services and modes they are already offered. However, turning down a sub-standard service (as in demanding that such service is terminated, as you seem to suggest) is more likely to delay than accelerate the arrival of an improved service, which better corresponds with the needs of the people living in glorious London (or having to got there). I've never lived in the GTHA, but I believe I would rather want to live in a city which has asked GO to improve rather than terminate the service it receives...
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I can't believe I'm going to support ssiguy2 on something but here goes...

I too have suggested that the current useless train service temporarily be terminated, because a bus route would provide faster and more frequent service for the same operating cost. And this is precisely because I want the train service to be improved. Temporarily reducing service on the railway facilitates construction on upgrades which would allow a useful train service to be operated.

Furthermore, the current service can actually reduce the likelihood of ever getting decent train service along the line because the lack of ridership gives the general public the false impression that there is no underlying demand for rail travel between London and Kitchener and creates a political obstacle to investment in the corridor.
 
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