GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[cbrown2009]

In the end, all of these suggestions are stop gap measures because the primary solution (evening & weekend trains from Mount Pleasant-Union) is already overdue and the freight bypass still at least 8 years away. So the question is: is the current status quo satisfactory for that long? Or can there/should there be some sort of interim solution to get more trains running?

 

[ShonTron]

Running more trains for the sake of running more trains doesn't in itself make sense.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think the Liberals will kick it up in gear after the summer. I think Brown will have no problem expanding service. Public pressure needs to happen though.

 

[dowlingm]

If the weekend/evening train service only went to Bramalea, I'd like to see the direct Union Station bus service continue for points west, similar to how Route 16 is still a thing despite a parallel train service (and a bus to connect to it from Downtown Hamilton.)

TOareaFan's idea could make people travelling from Brampton transfer twice, which is especially ridiculous.

How many buses do we want around Union Station though? The new bus terminal is going to fit only so many services, and there is an expectation that it will accommodate at least some of those using Bay-Dundas.

 

[TOareaFan]

Part of the problem in your assumptions -- and GO Transit's problem with its assumptions -- is that people will just drive to the train station. That's the problem with Grimsby, that's the problem with Gormley, and that's the problem with some of those proposed GO/SmartTrack station plans. Those assumptions is why Metrolinx spends tens of millions of dollars building and expanding parking lots in the suburbs and exurbs. Minimizing the problems with transfers and slow bus connections by saying "no problem, just drive there" is flawed.

I am proposing, on an interim basis to get rail service up and running on weekends, using an existing parking lot that holds over 2k cars and is, largely, vacant/unused on weekends. Those that don't want to can continue to use the buses or use BT to get to Bramalea.

I'd rather have the status quo than what you're advocating.

Fine, we can disagree on it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Allandale25]

I am proposing, on an interim basis to get rail service up and running on weekends, using an existing parking lot that holds over 2k cars and is, largely, vacant/unused on weekends. Those that don't want to can continue to use the buses or use BT to get to Bramalea.

Would you ideally like to see Lakeshore level weekend off-peak service? (IE every 30 minutes) Also, would you propose keep the existing GO bus schedule for the route? Or, would the buses terminate at Bramalea for the weekend trains? Or, would there be a decrease in bus service?

 

[TOareaFan]

Would you ideally like to see Lakeshore level weekend off-peak service? (IE every 30 minutes) Also, would you propose keep the existing GO bus schedule for the route? Or, would the buses terminate at Bramalea for the weekend trains? Or, would there be a decrease in bus service?

Ultimately, as I said above, I think the appropriate level of service we should be aiming for on all the lines is trains every hour and buses in between (so, for example, if trains head west from Union on the hour, there is a bus on the half hour) I think that builds service and gives people who don't mind buses the opportunity to leave on the half hour while those people who are "trains or nothing" types (and there is a lot of them) can wait for trains....you achieve 1/2 hourly frequencies without running trains half hourly...run that for a few years and build ridership.

For this interim service I think I would run short trains every half hour from Bramalea to Weston (arriving 3 minutes before the next UP train leaves).....I would run buses to Brampton and points west .....try it out for a while...see if the train gets any traction or not or if people prefer the existing bus schedule.

I gotta run though.....gotta drive to Weston to catch a train to get to the TFC match tonight

 

[Allandale25]

Thanks for the insight into your concept. Just one question of clarification, would the buses that connect to the trains do so at Bramalea not Brampton? (from what I understand, these wouldn't be the 1/2 buses between the trains that you suggested)

For this interim service I think I would run short trains every half hour from Bramalea to Weston (arriving 3 minutes before the next UP train leaves).....I would run buses to Brampton and points west .....try it out for a while...see if the train gets any traction or not or if people prefer the existing bus schedule.

 

[steveintoronto]

For this interim service I think I would run short trains every half hour from Bramalea to Weston (arriving 3 minutes before the next UP train leaves).....I would run buses to Brampton and points west .....try it out for a while...see if the train gets any traction or not or if people prefer the existing bus schedule.

This could be run as a single shuttle train. I can think of many forms this could take, including using a two coach Nippon Sharyo DMU set, even if it is 'the spare set' so if need be, it can be pushed into service on the UPX as the back-up. Ostensibly a shuttle bus could be pressed into service as replacement to Bramalea if that becomes the case. Being a single shuttle, it would only need a single track, no switching, since there isn't any evening GO train service on that stretch, which is exactly what the shuttle is meant to supplement.

There's been more than a few times I've been forced to use the 3X bus from Guelph (Or Georgetown) to Union (transferring at Brampton) because of missing the last late afternoon train run at Mount Pleasant that gets me to Bloor Station. Missing the train means taking the bus all the way down to Union Station, and then coming all the way back on either the UPX or the TTC to Bloor (West). I'm sure I'm not alone. (If GO allowed a through bus/train transfer at Pearson Airport station, this would all be redundant, but I digress)(you can do it this way, but pay the GO fare + the full UPX airport fare)

Considering the steep subsidy offered to Airport riders on the UPX, sharing that bounty with riders to/from Bramalea with an extended 3X bus that terminates at Brampton now is easily accommodated.

The high-platforms are already extant on all tracks at Weston and Bloor. Is the necessary train transfer at Weston an inconvenience? Barely. Think Yonge and Bloor and the subway. Compare that to the alternatives. It's a no-brainer. Since this would be an alternate interspersed with the bus, it would be an hourly service, there might even be schedule time to run it between Bloor and Bramalea as a single shuttle train. Since that stretch of track is empty post PM rush hour, signalling should be a breeze, only concern being the CN local accessing the spur on the south (west) side of the tracks near Malton.

This may not show an operating profit, but it would be a huge PR and tactical plus for Metrolinx, at a very low cost, and prime the Georgetown Corridor South and connecting buses for future expansion.

What a concept...

 

[micheal_can]

How many buses do we want around Union Station though? The new bus terminal is going to fit only so many services, and there is an expectation that it will accommodate at least some of those using Bay-Dundas.

Why do we even need buses going all the way to Union?

Why not have them connect to a closer GO station that runs more frequently?

 

[steveintoronto]

Running more trains for the sake of running more trains doesn't in itself make sense.

Why do we even need buses going all the way to Union?

Why not have them connect to a closer GO station that runs more frequently?

The answer is bog obvious, but Metrolinx just won't see it this way: Pearson Airport UPX and/or GO station. I can half understand on one hand, but disagree on the other. So do the next best thing, run a single train shuttle to connect Bramalea to Weston every 30 mins to connect to UPX, or Bramalea to Bloor every hour. (Bloor has the advantage of connecting to the B-D subway) And run it on the track not used by UPX so there are no signal, switch or slot conflicts. Two shuttles would double the frequency, albeit with the bus being an interleaved scheduling, "frequent service" would be achieved between from Bramalea to Union with bus + train using one shuttle train.

I leave it to others to confirm the distance/time/frequency of that claim as per number of shuttles running at any given time. Typical full GO train run time between Bramalea and Weston is as low as 18 mins and high as 30 according the schedule I have. So with stops at Etobicoke North and Malton, let's average that at 24 mins, less if the latter two stations are non-stopping, meaning only one high-level platform has to be added at Bramalea.

Which other GO line would be a possibility to connect to? Lakeshore is already connected indirectly by a number of buses, but the impetus fades even further thinking about arriving that indirectly at Union, or points along the way. The 3X series of buses crawl to their destination as it is, with at least the 410 offering some pace to it, once you get to it after lurching along Queen St.

If GO wants more riders on certain corridors at off-peak times, then they better run trains, or many will choose their cars. And believe me, I term the latter "failure". UPX typically runs well below capacity in the evenings. Why not tap the potential?

 

[cbrown2009]

Why do we even need buses going all the way to Union?

Why not have them connect to a closer GO station that runs more frequently?

Like Bramalea, with train connection to Union from there. Not in favour of connecting/ transferring to UP at Weston as a) Union is only 2 stops further down the line and b) sometimes I only need to get to Bloor, in which case the switch makes even less sense. Besides, RER is tentatively scheduled to run only Bramalea-Union anyways as of right now. So ML is (supposedly) prepared to run a service between Bramalea and Union. Might as well start now

 

[TOareaFan]

Like Bramalea, with train connection to Union from there. Not in favour of connecting/ transferring to UP at Weston as a) Union is only 2 stops further down the line and b) sometimes I only need to get to Bloor, in which case the switch makes even less sense. Besides, RER is tentatively scheduled to run only Bramalea-Union anyways as of right now. So ML is (supposedly) prepared to run a service between Bramalea and Union. Might as well start now

fair enough....how long are you willing to wait for ReR before you think alternatives to bringing weekend train service are worth looking for?

 

[steveintoronto]

Not in favour of connecting/ transferring to UP at Weston as a) Union is only 2 stops further down the line and b) sometimes I only need to get to Bloor, in which case the switch makes even less sense.

You miss the very pertinent point of lack of rolling stock to do it. What I proposed with a single shuttle addresses that. Even to include Bloor (only just) in scheduling a single shuttle service. Taking it to Union invokes all sorts of issues, not the least pathing in and platform space, not to mention the need for a second trainset, which just doesn't exist if the UPX Sharyos are the choice.

Besides, RER is tentatively scheduled to run only Bramalea-Union anyways as of right now. So ML is (supposedly) prepared to run a service between Bramalea and Union. Might as well start now

Tell that to Metrolinx. Electrification is still a theory, let alone RER. We need a solution NOW!

As stated prior, the 'standby' UPX trainset can be used for the shuttle, on call to fill-in on the UPX should it be needed. That priority would remain intact. And in the eventuality that should happen, a bus can be put on to fill the shuttle service, albeit it won't be anywhere near as fast or frequent, which is why a bus has not been suggested to do this in the first place. There is no fast, direct way to parallel the Georgetown Corridor from Bramalea by road.

The potential answers are incredibly simple, save for building a high-level platform (which can be built from timber until RER arrives) at Bramalea if the UPX standby trainset is used.

 

[ShonTron]

With this scheme, Brampton will truly be "Transfer City" -- want to go to Union Station? Take this bus through the heavy Steeles Avenue traffic, spend 5 minutes transferring to a shuttle train, with another transfer to yet another shuttle train. Or get a car!

Bonkers.