News   Nov 22, 2024
National Housing Day: City of Toronto and Riverdale Co-op Open Affordable Homes
 687     1 
News   Nov 22, 2024
Bauhaus Condos Rising in Toronto's Old Town
 1.2K     5 
News   Nov 22, 2024
49-Storey Waterfront Tower Proposed at Spadina and Queens Quay
 3.2K     8 

GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

This is a fairly explosive question but is track capacity on the North Main better served (expressed in net passenger-km) by VIA's presence, or by them moving aside for GO, possibly involving GO moving the small yard operation in Kitchener to Stratford Yard to give that city 2 (albeit less comfy) trains to/from the east? Would suck for St Mary's but if GO and CN could find a slot for an extra VIA each way on the Oakville to enhance London service then both organizations might well come out ahead.
 
dowlingm said:
This is a fairly explosive question but is track capacity on the North Main better served (expressed in net passenger-km) by VIA's presence, or by them moving aside for GO, possibly involving GO moving the small yard operation in Kitchener to Stratford Yard to give that city 2 (albeit less comfy) trains to/from the east? Would suck for St Mary's but if GO and CN could find a slot for an extra VIA each way on the Oakville to enhance London service then both organizations might well come out ahead.
Click to expand...

You ask an interesting question. The short answer is, we should be building to accept all possible business, and both markets are important. The VIA business is critical because many riders are through customers, eg Kitchener-Windsor or Ottawa- Guelph, and they contribute revenue beyond the Toronto- Kitchener- London end points. So I would expect VIA to want in for the long haul.

One could hand the whole route over to GO and just let people transfer at Toronto and London, but there are cross ticketing implications and that would preclude VIA from one-seat service between these farther afield trip points. I suspect VIA would not want its brand identity to abandon this territory (even if it is not serving it well at present).

I do think that GO is distorting its service model when it attempts to serve markets over about 60 kms with stopping services. That is a regional service that demands trains that stop fewer places... in the interest of car competitiveness and efficiency. The Kitchener market is hugely wasteful as 1200 seats that empty in Brampton are hauled all the way to Kitchener in the interest of serving 100 Kitchener riders. (I may be off in the exact numbers, but the point is illustrative).

We need one of the two to step up to proper regional service. GO’s service mandate is the more desirable one.... GO hauls 1000 riders at $10 (with immediate political repercussions if they propose charing $10.25) where VIA aspires to 250 riders at $40, and may charge $45 at peak without anyone complaining. We need to emphasise ridership growth over revenue in this corridor, IMHO, especially since it takes autos off the 401.

Laying track is not cheap, but it’s not so expensive that we should be rationing service. We should build for all of it. I see no sign that the latest Minister understands any of this.

- Paul
 
Last edited:
Allandale25 said:
If you go to 11:35 in this video below the Minister takes questions on the changes to the Kitchener Line schedule. He noted that Metrolinx turned "an express run line into a milk run line", which I find a little surprising because I would have assumed he would have been aware of the change and signed off on it. He's also requested that they [Metrolinx] "expedite additional runs" on the Kitchener Line so that we can "return an express line [trip?] as soon as possible". Later he says "we have expressed with Metrolinx to work on getting us another, um, another line, an express line this time and they've made changes to their modeling program going forward."

I wonder how long it will take to add the express trip back in given the discussion we've had here about crew change schedules, CN providing track availability, etc.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4867626/focus-ontario-congested-lanes-crowded-trains
Click to expand...

Just wondering if you have any thoughts on this, @smallspy?
 
drum118 said:
Falls officials want to bring Canadian commuter train across the border
Click to expand...

canarob said:
We already have enough things to worry about causing delays without bringing an international border into the picture.
Click to expand...

Working backwards.........pre-clearance customs can largely erase the issue of delays associated w/the border.

An option mentioned in that piece.

That said, while I would like to see more frequent train connections btw Buffalo and Toronto, and I do think there's a market for that, I don't see the GO Train as the right solution.

Whether one uses VIA or Amtrak or a private operator, I think you need both faster and more comfortable rolling stock to make that trip work well.

I also think pre-clearance customs are a must.

A whole slew of things need to happen before the idea is ready for serious conversation.

On our side of the border, we need to see the complete package of improvements to the NF-Hamilton trackage that have already been envisioned in the GO expansion plans.

Likewise, improvements in the LSW corridor are needed merely to shift to 15M GO Service, let alone add additional train movements. Those need to occur.

To generate higher speeds, further investments will be needed (I'm not talking HSR, but rather maximizing current maximum speeds, and perhaps contemplating an upward shift in the max to 200km/ph)

Beyond that, on the US side, Buffalo needs to build its new Amtrak station, and that facility would likely require alteration as I don't believe it contemplated customs services.

Once all of that is done, I expect that there may be market for service 4x each way each day btw Buffalo and Toronto, maybe more during the peak seasons.

But we're a long way off.

Let's review the idea in 2024! :)
 
^The exact details escape me, but I seem to recall that the Maple Leaf has already seen some silly situations where substitute equipment couldn’t be used out of Toronto, because it was not FRA compliant and was not allowed to cross the river to the Niagara Falls NY Amtrak station.....yeah, you can see that far from the Canadian side..... the lesson learned being, GO/VIA will need to acquire FRA compliant equipment to make that work. Apart from the timing issues, the equipment just can’t go there.

- Paul
 
“People from Niagara University are commuting now to Vaughn and (the GO Train) is a way to get them there,”
Click to expand...

The train now takes 3:16......let’s be really kind and say the Buffalo to NF, Ontario part takes 14 minutes to give us a travel time of 3:30 to Union.....then 40 minutes on the subway to Vaughan.......4 hours and 10 minutes is a “commute”?
 
since when does it take 3 hours? the schedule still shows a 7:50am arrival, or a 2 hour and 31 minute trip.

Of course, it's still completely ridiculous.

And yes - the easiest thing to do is likely to just open the Whirlpool bridge to pedestrians. The Niagara Falls Amtrak station is 600m away from the Niagara Falls GO Station - running the train across seems silly if it's just going to that one stop. Let people cross the border on their own time and board on the Canadian side. If they want they can park in the Amtrak lot and walk across the bridge.

I wouldn't mind a more frequent type of service to Buffalo beyond the once a day Maple Leaf service today, but there's a lot that needs to happen first to make that more realistic. Better travel times, etc. Maybe once all the Niagara GO expansion construction finishes up. VIA / Amtrak would likely be a better fit to operate it anyway - it wouldn't really be a commuter type service.
 
innsertnamehere said:
since when does it take 3 hours? the schedule still shows a 7:50am arrival, or a 2 hour and 31 minute trip.

Of course, it's still completely ridiculous.

And yes - the easiest thing to do is likely to just open the Whirlpool bridge to pedestrians. The Niagara Falls Amtrak station is 600m away from the Niagara Falls GO Station - running the train across seems silly if it's just going to that one stop. Let people cross the border on their own time and board on the Canadian side. If they want they can park in the Amtrak lot and walk across the bridge.

I wouldn't mind a more frequent type of service to Buffalo beyond the once a day Maple Leaf service today, but there's a lot that needs to happen first to make that more realistic. Better travel times, etc. Maybe once all the Niagara GO expansion construction finishes up. VIA / Amtrak would likely be a better fit to operate it anyway - it wouldn't really be a commuter type service.
Click to expand...

As I've said here before, my dream is a nice new Downtown Buffalo intercity terminal that can serve Amtrak, intercity buses and a rail service to Toronto. It would have to be set up like Vancouver's Pacific Central Terminal, with a separated border control area for US and Canadian customs and immigration. Ideally, buses from Canada could also stop briefly at the US border, check in with the guard, get a seal across the door, then proceed direct to the terminal, where passengers are let off and processed. (And vice-versa Canada-bound).

As for Niagara Falls, yes, the ideal situation would be to open the Whirlpool Bridge to all pedestrians (right now, it's car passengers using Nexus only), though Niagara Falls did build a new Amtrak station right at the bridge (it used to be at the yard father east, much more isolated).
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top