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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

DonValleyRainbow said:
Councillor asks Metrolinx to revisit planned closure of GO Station at York U
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Someone is trying to use the Minister's current media pickle to get what they want:

City council voted in February, 2016 to ask Metrolinx to keep York University GO Station open but Peruzza told CP24 that it appears as though the transit agency is intent on “mothballing it because they want to save a few seconds on the line.”

He said the planned closure of the station is particularly galling given plans to open two other GO stations, including one in Del Duca’s Vaughan riding, despite an internal report that said neither should be built.
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Peruzza is wrong in saying that GO "has never really closed a station in their network." Apart from service cutbacks that eliminated train service to Barrie and Guelph (since restored), GO closed Lorne Park Station not long after beginning operations.

GO also moved some station locations by considerable distances - Bronte was originally at Highway 25, but moved to near Third Line at Oakville West (room for a large parking lot; Oakville West was later renamed Bronte). Burlington Station used to be at Burlington Junction west of Brant Street. (It, too was moved for parking). Unionville moved a considerable distance as well (also for parking). (Other station moves, like Milliken and Weston, were minor.)

I would consider Bronte and Unionville station closures, but they, like York University, were replaced by new locations with better access.
 
ShonTron said:
Peruzza is wrong in saying that GO "has never really closed a station in their network." Apart from service cutbacks that eliminated train service to Barrie and Guelph (since restored), GO closed Lorne Park Station not long after beginning operations.
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Even then, they did not restore service to the train station in Rockwood (did they?) so that would be a closure even though the service to Guelph (and beyond) is restored.

ShonTron said:
GO also moved some station locations by considerable distances - Bronte was originally at Highway 25, but moved to near Third Line at Oakville West (room for a large parking lot; Oakville West was later renamed Bronte). Burlington Station used to be at Burlington Junction west of Brant Street. (It, too was moved for parking). Unionville moved a considerable distance as well (also for parking). (Other station moves, like Milliken and Weston, were minor.)

I would consider Bronte and Unionville station closures, but they, like York University, were replaced by new locations with better access.
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You are correct, the York closure is more like a relocation than a full on closure....and, like some relocations, they will inconvenience a few folk while enhancing service to others. It would appear to me they are doing the right thing.
 
reaperexpress said:
[...]
0 - 100 km/h
Union Pearson Express Nippon Sharyo DMU: 88 seconds
GO Transit MP40 with 6 Bombardier Bilevels: 80 seconds
Nederlandse Spoorwegen Bombardier SLT EMU: 52 seconds

Deceleration should be equal. GO already has remarkably fast deceleration, I don't see that improving. The main improvement would be the reduction of energy and maintenance costs thanks to regenerative braking, as well as the reduction in the noise and smell from the friction brakes.
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Actually with EMUs deceleration *should* increase also, unless MLX buys something dated...again.

One of the highest rate of acceleration known DMUs is the Flirt, and it is eclipsed, easily, by their EMU models, at least the latest versions of each. Here's some reference, insufficient to prove the point, but highly useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadler_FLIRT

[...]
The major rolling stock manufacturers sell DMUs with top speeds of 120-140 km/h, and EMUs with top speeds of 140-200 km/h; faster trains are generally more expensive, and with a few exceptions not of much use outside dedicated high-speed rail lines. The difference in acceleration performance is large: when the top speed is 100 km/h, an EMU such as the FLIRT takes less than 30 seconds to accelerate from standstill to top speed, corresponding to an acceleration time penalty of about 14 seconds, whereas the Stadler GTW DMU has a penalty of about 28 seconds (see data on PDF-p. 43); the GTW EMU version, a less powerful train than the FLIRT, loses 19 seconds. DMUs are also less comfortable than EMUs, because the diesel engines are right under passengers’ feet; longer-distance lines almost never use them, and instead use diesel locomotives, which accelerate even more slowly. Because of this large difference in acceleration performance, electrification delivers the greatest performance benefits on lines with closely-spaced stops and high traffic. These are usually commuter rail lines rather than intercity lines. For example [...discussion continues in detail...]
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https://pedestrianobservations.com/2015/06/28/when-nationwide-electrification-is-called-for/

Long discussion short: It's no mistake that any advanced nation with a passenger network to match is electric, with *very few exceptions*...and even there, as BBD knows all too well, (and competitors) diesel is about to be replaced by much cleaner fossil fuel, in fuel cell form.

Back later, tried Googling on this last two nights, almost all the info is dated and misleading...
 
TOareaFan said:
My bad...i thought it did back when it was extended to Guelph the first time...thought stops were Acton/Rockwood/Guelph
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You're thinking of the bus service. The EA never evaluated a potential Rockwood site due to little ridership demand, but did note that Acton was good to serve any Rockwood residents.

Here's some insight buried within the public consultation section:

rqEXxkN.png
 
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You might not get a chance to measure acceleration to highest speeds much longer reaper. They're implementing a fuel efficiency policy which will gradually be put into effect. The plan is for trains to accelerate normally coming out of a station until they reach a preset speed. Once that speed is reached trains will throttle off and cruise into the next station.

What about on time performance you ask? Well with the amount of schedule padding in place its quite easy to maintain the schedule. These days its more important now to get to the station on time to hit performance measures then to get people there as fast as possible.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
You're thinking of the bus service. The EA never evaluated a potential Rockwood site due to little ridership demand, but did note that Acton was good to serve any Rockwood residents.

Here's some insight buried within the public consultation section:

rqEXxkN.png
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Nope, I was not thinking of any EA, I was actually recalling (incorrectly) that the old service to Guelph stopped there.
 
WRT the closing of York U station and opening of the Downsview Park station, What is the distance between them? Are there any other stations in use currently that are that close? If not, what is the closest stations to each other?
 
micheal_can said:
WRT the closing of York U station and opening of the Downsview Park station, What is the distance between them? Are there any other stations in use currently that are that close? If not, what is the closest stations to each other?
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Careful use of the 'measure distance' tool of Google Maps yields a distance (measured from accessibility platform to accessibility platform) of about 2.85km between Downsview Park and York U. It is about 2.55km from Rutherford to Maple, by comparison. I believe Rutherford-Maple is the shortest in the GO network and Downsview Park-York U would likely take second place. Exhibition-Union would likely be a close 3rd. If Spadina is ever built and Barrie trains service both Spadina and Union, that will be ~1.25km.

It's not just a matter of spacing. Most of the current passengers at York U GO are likely York University students/faculty/staff who will be served by Downsview Park GO+a 2-stop subway ride into the heart of York U's campus, vs. the current York U GO in the middle of an industrial park a good distance from the campus requiring a long walk or a shuttle bus ride. I believe the proponents of keeping the station are quoting 200-300 daily passengers. Let's even call it 300. How many of those 300 do we think are not York U students/staff? Of those few who use the station for other destinations, how many won't be well served by Downsview Park GO+subway ride?

Rutherford-Maple being shorter, in comparison--those are two extremely busy stations with several times more riders than York U. They are so busy that they are building parking garages at both of the stations, such a short distance from one another. There are lots of homes near each station, and they are on major streets. York U has very little near it aside from the university campus. As the name suggests, the station exists solely to serve the university--a couple of people might use it for other things, but how much will it cost GO to maintain the station, and expand it to 2 tracks/2 platforms, building a pedestrian tunnel with elevators? How much CO2 will be emitted from the extra stop until electrification, and how much electricity will be wasted from the stop after that? How much time will it add to the trip? How many people will stop riding GO, or never start, and drive instead because they're annoyed by having so many stops so close together? All for what, 10 people a day?
 
Megaton327 said:
Careful use of the 'measure distance' tool of Google Maps yields a distance (measured from accessibility platform to accessibility platform) of about 2.85km between Downsview Park and York U. It is about 2.55km from Rutherford to Maple, by comparison. I believe Rutherford-Maple is the shortest in the GO network and Downsview Park-York U would likely take second place. Exhibition-Union would likely be a close 3rd. If Spadina is ever built and Barrie trains service both Spadina and Union, that will be ~1.25km.

It's not just a matter of spacing. Most of the current passengers at York U GO are likely York University students/faculty/staff who will be served by Downsview Park GO+a 2-stop subway ride into the heart of York U's campus, vs. the current York U GO in the middle of an industrial park a good distance from the campus requiring a long walk or a shuttle bus ride. I believe the proponents of keeping the station are quoting 200-300 daily passengers. Let's even call it 300. How many of those 300 do we think are not York U students/staff? Of those few who use the station for other destinations, how many won't be well served by Downsview Park GO+subway ride?

Rutherford-Maple being shorter, in comparison--those are two extremely busy stations with several times more riders than York U. They are so busy that they are building parking garages at both of the stations, such a short distance from one another. There are lots of homes near each station, and they are on major streets. York U has very little near it aside from the university campus. As the name suggests, the station exists solely to serve the university--a couple of people might use it for other things, but how much will it cost GO to maintain the station, and expand it to 2 tracks/2 platforms, building a pedestrian tunnel with elevators? How much CO2 will be emitted from the extra stop until electrification, and how much electricity will be wasted from the stop after that? How much time will it add to the trip? How many people will stop riding GO, or never start, and drive instead because they're annoyed by having so many stops so close together? All for what, 10 people a day?
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I think the York U station platform should be moved north to the edge of Steeles and have an entrance off Steeles Ave where the Steeles TTC bus can stop and service.

Make the station GO RER only so that trains from Barrie don't stop at it and only express downtown
 
robmausser said:
I think the York U station platform should be moved north to the edge of Steeles and have an entrance off Steeles Ave where the Steeles TTC bus can stop and service.

Make the station GO RER only so that trains from Barrie don't stop at it and only express downtown
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Wait, GO RER doesn't stop at all stations?
 
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