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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Worse than that - if you consider that RER is all-day, 7-day transportation, the intended market is notionally using Union as a "hub" to transfer between RER lines. Having one line terminate further away conflicts with that. ML is getting desperate about Union Station capacity, if you ask me.

It is possible, and I'm baffled why when the plan is to electrify and use a greater number of EMU trainsets, there isn't more of a focus on runthrough operation with fast loading at Union. The station's capacity in a run-through configuration should be much greater than a stop-and-stay configuration.

There is an answer for this, and I've read no mention of it as an alternative to the tunnel option that has been mentioned: A two-track flyover as a southerly by-pass around the present shed. The constriction isn't just platform space and slots, it's the mouths through the bridges to the west of Union. One of the advantages of RER is that it will be electric EMUs, and so have the ability to handle greater gradients than diesel hauled loco stock with a more distributed and higher tractive ability. Whether the bridges would have to be raised slightly to do this, or the ground tracks lowered to clear a flown pair is a good question, but no matter how this is done, it will be a lot cheaper and easier than tunneling, especially through that area with so much density above it, unless tunneling through bedrock, which would make it even more expensive, not in terms of digging, which would be easier, but in terms of platform access that deep. Think East Side Access under Grand Central Terminal. (Which would not be repeated today, if they knew how much that is eventually to cost)

Ostensibly a platform could be flown too above the three tracks already by-passing the south of the shed. It's a wild idea, but compared to relying on a DRL shuttle or any other option being touted, it's no harder than building the Gardiner....hey...lol...now there's an idea...sling it under the present Gardiner alignment to get around obstacles, and sink the Lakeshore where necessary to clear it. The Chicago Loop is probably a good comparator in many respects in everything but appearance.

Again, if the Missing Link were built, these trains could loop across the present CP mid-town line to Summerhill Station. The Missing Link makes so much possible.

On the politics of the Feds new 'Investment Bank': Since private money is being touted to be greater than the Fed's own amount being invested, one wonders as to who calls the shots? This might be a good thing in the big scheme of things esp as that relates to the Missing Link, the ring that binds them all. If I were investing private capital, I'd look at the Link as being one of the best possible investments of them all, and not to have any government ownership of it, make it a stand-alone private investment that then leases rights to users.

*(See link at bottom)

Does this complicate things operationally? No more than passenger over freight is already! Perhaps even less, as if enough demand were there for passenger as well, dedicated leasing for that could/would also be accommodated. Would the Feds have a say in how this is allocated? Absolutely, it would take an amendment of present acts to allow this, perhaps an Act of its own would be best, so that any later dispute would be settled by Federal courts if necessary. Complicated? Not really, the present private railways operate already under such regulations and terms, and when times are good, make an excellent financial return. The Link would be even more of a steady investment, as the passenger load, if passenger is also accommodated, ballasts the freight usage over time.

This new Investment Bank may be far more favourable *indirectly* to Metrolinx overall just by rationalizing freight operations around the GTHA. That would allow provincial monies to go a lot further in doing what would then remain necessary for GO to be far more efficient.

*Link for above reference:
(Like it or not, due to limited Gov't monies, this is the way things are headed)
Australia’s new dawn – port privatisation
The Government of New South Wales announced in June 2013 that it would sell the Port of Newcastle to fund significant infrastructure projects.
Download file as PDF

This followed the Queensland Government’s announcement in May 2013 that it would consider offering long-term leaseholds on the Port of Gladstone and Port of Townsville to the private sector.

This article first appeared in the September 2013 issue of Port Strategy and is reproduced with permission. www.portstrategy.com

Both were encouraged by the recent privatisation of Port Botany and Port Kembla to the NSW Ports Consortium – made up of a group of superannuation and infrastructure funds – on a 99-year lease for a combined A$5.1 billion.

Earlier on, the Queensland Government off-loaded its Port of Brisbane in November 2010 to Q Port Holdings on a 99-year leasehold, and the Abbot Point Coal Terminal in May 2011 to Mundra Port Pty Ltd, the Australian subsidiary of Mundra Port and Special Economic Zone Ltd, a company that develops and manages the largest privately developed port in India.

Port privatisation is not a new phenomenon in Australia. Since the late 1990s, Australia has followed the international trend of reducing governments’ involvement in port infrastructure to improve port performance and efficiency. However, before the sale of the Port of Brisbane, only some smaller public ports were privatised. The Port of Geelong and Port of Portland in Victoria were sold in 1996,and the Port of Adelaide in South Australia was sold in 2001. The majority of capital city ports had been publicly owned. The debt refinancing behind the A$2.1 billion Port of Brisbane privatisation has started the latest trend of significant Australian State capital city port privatisation. [...]
http://www.hfw.com/Australias-new-dawn–port-privatisation-November-2013

It's time to privatize Canada's leading ports and airports
The Globe and Mail-Feb 17, 2014
By international standards, Canada's two largest portsVancouver ... it time to completely privatize Canada's main airports and ocean ports?
 
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I wonder when the Barrie media, or people using the Barrie Corridor right now and their associated politicians, will pick up on this fact. Is today the first day we've got clear confirmation that the Barrie Line will terminate at the new Spadina GO Station?
Did we get that confirmation? I have been through the technical document a couple of times. It says:

"The proposed Spadina Station would also be well-positioned to provide some relief to future passenger volumes at Union Station." Which I read as some people will get off here, so fewer get off at Union. And it shows:

Spadina.JPG


Looks like a station on a line that carries through to Union to me.
 

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A Bathurst Yard station is not a new idea:

December 2, 2011 by Steve
Union Station & Rail Corridor Capacity
[...]
Bathurst Yard Station


An alternative scheme would see Bathurst Yard converted into a station for the Georgetown and Barrie Services. Because this is a stub-end station, service would be limited to 7.5 trains/hour (15 minutes on each of two platforms per service).

This arrangement eliminates the conflict with the Airport trains. All services would have a direct route to their assigned platforms without crossing the routes of any other trains.

A “Bathurst” station would lie west of Spadina, but it is a fair hike into most of the business district. One proposed option is for a “Downtown Relief Line” to connect under the new station enroute to a terminus at Exhibition Place. This option is beyond the scope of the Track Capacity study, but is included in a separate Corridor Options study that I will discuss in a future article. Some information already appeared in my summary of the recent Metrolinx Board meeting.

One major advantage of this scheme is that the new station capacity is not underground and, therefore, electrification is not a pre-requisite. Indeed, nothing other than finding a new location for train storage prevents GO from building this station today. A connection to downtown is essential, but a new rapid transit line into downtown is long overdue and is justified in its own right.
[...]

https://stevemunro.ca/2011/12/02/union-station-rail-corridor-capacity/comment-page-1/
 
  • A station on the north side of the rail corridor at Spadina and Front. Barrie trains would terminate at this new location releasing capacity at Union for additional service on other corridors. The report is silent on how this station might affect alignment choices for a relief subway line that could act as a downtown distributor for the new GO terminal.
http://torontoist.com/2016/11/smarttracks-plans-unravel/

I read this tidbit about the province asking $60 million from the city for this station and another one at Bloor and Landsdowne for the Barrie line. What is the sense in dumping all these passengers at this station at Front and Spadina. Where do they go from here? Unless this station is constructed in conjuction with the downtown relief and the downtown relief line has a stop here at this location connecting with it, this makes no sense.

Steven's concerns are completely unwarranted! Let's not forget Keeesmat's goons were at the public education camp sessions a few months earlier swearing up and down that they were meeting 10 times a day with Metrolinx and 100% planning a holistic network.

Bzzzzt. Hate to tell you people I told you so but I told you so.

While the Keesmat fanboys and fangirls were convinced that her crew could do no wrong, the rest of us outside of the RDF saw this coming from a hundred miles away. She was clearly drawing lines to protect ScamTrack; sabotaging the city in the process.
 
I was just going but the text in this article in Torontoist. I could try to figure out where in the staff report it says this:

  • A station on the north side of the rail corridor at Spadina and Front. Barrie trains would terminate at this new location releasing capacity at Union for additional service on other corridors. The report is silent on how this station might affect alignment choices for a relief subway line that could act as a downtown distributor for the new GO terminal.

Did we get that confirmation? I have been through the technical document a couple of times. It says:

"The proposed Spadina Station would also be well-positioned to provide some relief to future passenger volumes at Union Station." Which I read as some people will get off here, so fewer get off at Union. And it shows:

Looks like a station on a line that carries through to Union to me.
 
There was a station study awhile back (can't dig it out at the moment) which proposed several locations for satellite stations, the message being that Union Station is filling up and no technical solution or tunnel is going to change that. Somehow, the Spadina location has crept into reality thanks to ST, which could be the thin edge of the wedge, or might mean it was the only one that proved viable and the others have been discarded. ML and the City need to 'fess up on where this is at.

Although my initial reaction was to strongly resist this change, on reflection this may simply be the price we pay for growing up into a denser world-class city. Paris, London, New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston are all cities that come to mind where rail commuting is distributed across multiple termini. That works well for people who only want to get downtown, provided the end destination is walkable from the depot. (The hordes of commuters walking across 33-34 Street in Manhattan at rush hour to reach Penn Station is one of my favourite mental images of that part of Manhattan !)

I agree with @TransitBart that as the City intensifies, we have to get our heads around Toronto having a web of new pathways. We have all grown up with the idea that the way to get anywhere is to come downtown to Union and transfer there. That isn't possible any more as neither rail nor subway can handle the volume. Maybe ML is actually further ahead in their thinking than we are.

Some of the cities I mentioned are strugglung with how to unify travel across those different stations - London being the prime example. We need to not push the pendulum too far - Union needs to be the hub enabling through travel - but maybe there is sense in moving the stub-end, peak commuting business out of the traditional end point, if only by a trainlength or three.

- Paul
 
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I found this December 2011 post by Steve Munro that might be helpful. It even has a platform layout for the Bathurst Station. Here's the presentation that was given to the Metrolinx Board in November 2011.

There was a station study awhile back (can't dig it out at the moment) which proposed several locations for satellite stations, the message being that Union Station is filling up and no technical solution or tunnel is going to change that. Somehow, the Spadina location has crept into reality thanks to ST, which could be the thin edge of the wedge, or might mean it was the only one that proved viable and the others have been discarded. ML and the City need to 'fess up on where this is at.

- Paul
 
It is possible, and I'm baffled why when the plan is to electrify and use a greater number of EMU trainsets, there isn't more of a focus on runthrough operation with fast loading at Union. The station's capacity in a run-through configuration should be much greater than a stop-and-stay configuration.

- Paul

Because according to those who have run the simulations run-through operation will have a lower upset limit in terms of sheer number of trains possible than would double-berthing, even with all of the regulations involving turning the trains around.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Because according to those who have run the simulations run-through operation will have a lower upset limit in terms of sheer number of trains possible than would double-berthing, even with all of the regulations involving turning the trains around.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I wondered if this was so - particularly since Union's platforms are so narrow. Loading and unloading delay, and passage of trains through crowded platforms, is not what it might be under optimal platform design.

As to turning regulations, if TC ever gets their heads around crash worthiness specs, the next battle will be brake and control continuity. The regulations are written as if every train has a vintage 1876 Westinghouse air brake control at one end (they kinda do) and a 1940-era 27-pin diesel MU control cable between cars (as they do). Technology has come a ways, and I hope whatever EMU GO buys will have a radically modern braking and control system.

- Paul
 
Could you help to clarify what "upset limit" means?

Because according to those who have run the simulations run-through operation will have a lower upset limit in terms of sheer number of trains possible than would double-berthing, even with all of the regulations involving turning the trains around.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Cough North Toronto Station Cough - Cough Midtown Go line Cough
Yep...when you you look at the costs of making Union work since it's saturated at peak, at the end of the day, the Missing Link is the answer to so many of the conundrums.

I was just thinking about the 'multiplier effect' of the "Investment Bank" again, and how Sabia (Caisse) has made that presentation on Montreal (which is still questionable in many ways, but the point is, the *funds* are there as well as impetus) and the Fed will be a minority share in the Bank....but even for provincially owned rights of way like the USRC (which actually may be City owned in the core, (see reference at bottom) a whole other discussion as per Rail Deck Park and the Tri-Partite Agreement turn of last century) are still *fully federally regulated*....and therein is the fast-track to approving schemes on behalf of the majority shareholders of the Bank...there *has* to be more discussion on how this can *radically* alter the game plan for Toronto's rail corridors. The Missing Link is begging for the likes of the Investment Bank to intercede.

Rushed at moment, will detail reference more later, but here's good reading for anyone interested:
Grand Trunk Railway Co. v. City of Toronto - Supreme Court of Canada
https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/9855/index.do
The Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada and the Canadian Pacific Railway .... the Esplanade or Tripartite Agreement, which was confirmed by the Ontario ...

[PDF]historicstructurerepo rt - City of Toronto
https://www1.toronto.ca/City%20Of%20Toronto/.../USHSR%20-%20484-050506-HS...
In the context of the current agreement process, the Union Station HSR takes on a more .... Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) inaugurated a transportation line to bind the ..... There was talk of a viaduct being built along Esplanade and grade ...

There's a book I'll link reference to with the complete agreement (It's actually a Statute between the Province on the City's behalf and Parliament) in whole I'll link later when I find it again.

Late Edit to Add:
Here's the book link. Googling to find it was hopeless, just wasn't showing results, so found it from my prior posting this site:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=BupHAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA572&lpg=PA572&dq=Esplanade+or+Tripartite+Agreement&source=bl&ots=1q9Pyh4ENJ&sig=B_54nS2NfC0ZCshhgm5qZje8RhQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzrZ2slM7PAhWo34MKHRFMD7cQ6AEIKDAC#v=onepage&q=Esplanade or Tripartite Agreement&f=false

It's extensive, but fascinating reading, and I've yet to discover any later information to annul or modify the legality of this Agreement.

For a more detailed examination:
Further to the previous post, continued digging on the matter of ownership of the USRC as that pertains to air-rights, Union Station and shed land ownership and other matters, it's difficult slogging, a lot shows, but interpreting it and not having more recent court decisions and/or precedents hinders knowing the legal status, but just found this:
[...]
...the Canadian Pacific Railway Company to the use of portions of the bed of the harbour on which they had laid their tracks across the prolongations of the streets mentioned, a grant was made to that company by the Dominion Government of the "use for railway purposes" on and over the filled-in areas included within the lines formed by the production of the sides of the streets. At a later date the Dominion Government granted these areas to the city in trust to be used as public highways, subject to an agreement respecting the railways, known as the "Old Windmill Line Agreement," and excepting therefrom strips of land 66 feet in width between the southerly ends of the areas and the harbour, reserved as and for "an allowance for a public highway." In June, 1909, the Board of Railway Commissioners, on application by the city, made an order directing that the railway companies should elevate their tracks on and adjoining the "Esplanade" and construct a viaduct there. Held, Girouard and Duff, JJ. dissenting, that the Board had jurisdiction to make -such order; that the street prolongations mentioned were highways within the meaning of the "Railway Act"; that the Act of Parliament validating the agreement made in 1892 was not a "special Act" within the meaning of "The Railway Act" and did not alter the character of the agreement as a private contract affecting only the parties thereto, and that the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, having acquired only a limited right or easement in the filled-in land, had not such a title thereto as would deprive the public of the right to pass over the same as a means of communication between the streets and the harbour.
[...]
I'll add more in quotation: (access the original post
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...of-toronto-zeidler.4308/page-235#post-1155966
for this section)

http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/9855/index.do?r=AAAAAQAKUGVyc29ubmUgYgE

At a first glance, this appears more than profound! Haven't even begun to read this in detail, but it offers the City an interpretation of "bridging" the USRC for Rail Deck Park. I realize the point is relevant to more than just Union Station, but unless some of these earlier judgements were rendered moot or not-pertinent in later rulings, things are about to get very interesting as the City digs on ownership of the USRC and adjacent properties. (Edit: Note use of the term "possession" not "ownership" in reference to the railways)

Edit to Add: Can't quote due to copy-block, but the "Tripartite Agreement" (also referred to as "Esplanade Agreement") described at: https://books.google.ca/books?id=BupHAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA572&lpg=PA572&dq=Esplanade+or+Tripartite+Agreement&source=bl&ots=1q9Pyh4ENJ&sig=B_54nS2NfC0ZCshhgm5qZje8RhQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzrZ2slM7PAhWo34MKHRFMD7cQ6AEIKDAC#v=onepage&q=Esplanade or Tripartite Agreement&f=false
 
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And why was the Barrie line chosen for this station ? Nobody wants to get dumped off at a station wher their only other connections are a bunch of overcrowded streetcars. Most GO users who are heading downtown are getting off at Union. What sense does it make dropping them so close to Union Station but with no other rapid transit connections. This is one of the most idiotic plans I've heard.

It needs to be done (plus adding a station in the east for the RH line) to avoid even more overcrowding at Union. Even with the reno it'll be bursting at the seams.

- I wonder what they will have to pay for the lot at Front & Spadina (isn't it still owned by Cityplace?). Or allow for a change in density.
- The future east end station (for RH) can be built just west of Jarvis on the N side of the tracks behind the Esplanade parking lot. I think there's room there.
- Our beloved city staff may have to give up their gold-plated subway to work (aka DRL) and move it to a Front St alignment so it can also act as a shuttle for these stations
 
I checked with Steve Munro and he referred me to page 22 of this report: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-97897.pdf

If you're looking for a direct link between the report and Steve's article it's not explicitly there. You'd have to ask Steve for more details on his thinking in writing it the way he did. He is answering readers questions below the Torontoist article so perhaps that's the best place. Or twitter.

He did go on to say when I asked:

See p22 of http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-97897.pdf

A station at Spadina connecting with the DRL has been one of the proposals for Union Station capacity relief for a few years now, although it seemed to have fallen off the table. The fact that Metrolinx wants to build this one now implies that it is back on the table again. However, the DRL is in the wrong place up on Queen to connect with it.

This is an example of how on again, off again transit proposals interact with each other. If Spadina had been a real consideration, there would have been no question about a more southerly alignment of the DRL.

But of course a more southerly DRL would look too much like ST and we can’t have that, can we.


Did we get that confirmation? I have been through the technical document a couple of times. It says:

"The proposed Spadina Station would also be well-positioned to provide some relief to future passenger volumes at Union Station." Which I read as some people will get off here, so fewer get off at Union. And it shows:

View attachment 90466

Looks like a station on a line that carries through to Union to me.
 

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