GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

I guess the point I am trying to make is that all the political mis-information is not helpful....we have a provincial government constantly talking about its record spending on transit infrastructure and how it is all funded in their budget....then we get a new federal government coming out with massive infrastructure money for (amongst other things) transit...giving the feeling/idea that even more than what the provincial government talks about is possible...then the feds end up just contributing to the already planned/announced/funded provincial projects and we end up with just the same transit we already had been promised.

Timing is everything. If QP had known just how determined Trudeau's Ottawa would be to get into the infrastructure game, I bet they would have hedged a little and made more noise about wanting money from Ottawa for RER. Remember, RER was conceived back when Harper was still around, and I'm sure the QP Liberals figured there was little or no hope of help from that government, if anything they may have gone ahead to embarass Ottawa into some sort of funding commitment.

If you read yesterday's report to Toronto City Council, they document at length the funding commitments that have and haven't been made for Smarttrack and Crosstown. I'm surmising that even Toronto politicians can't follow the bouncing ball. The difference between us here on UT and the politicians is - we want the clarity, they just want the story to be good news.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

Timing is everything. If QP had known just how determined Trudeau's Ottawa would be to get into the infrastructure game, I bet they would have hedged a little and made more noise about wanting money from Ottawa for RER. Remember, RER was conceived back when Harper was still around, and I'm sure the QP Liberals figured there was little or no hope of help from that government, if anything they may have gone ahead to embarass Ottawa into some sort of funding commitment.

I am not sure you are getting the point I am making and I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer. We should just move on.

 

[crs1026]

but for people coming from traditional GO areas and not headed for Spadina/Front (ie. headed for the financial core) will get off the GO train at Downsview Park and add crowds to the subway? Ending any GO lines outside of Union makes no sense.

Worse than that - if you consider that RER is all-day, 7-day transportation, the intended market is notionally using Union as a "hub" to transfer between RER lines. Having one line terminate further away conflicts with that. ML is getting desperate about Union Station capacity, if you ask me.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

Worse than that - if you consider that RER is all-day, 7-day transportation, the intended market is notionally using Union as a "hub" to transfer between RER lines. Having one line terminate further away conflicts with that. ML is getting desperate about Union Station capacity, if you ask me.

- Paul

Is it not possible to extend the platforms at Union further west to allow multiple trains to be using the same platform? eg. a Barrie train on 5/6 West and a Lakeshore East train on 5/6 East?

 

[crs1026]

I am not sure you are getting the point I am making and I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer. We should just move on.

If you are observing that government is now competing to spend on infrastructure, I get that. Neither QP nor Ottawa are fiscally conservative, however. The drunken sailor thing has some truth to it.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Is it not possible to extend the platforms at Union further west to allow multiple trains to be using the same platform? eg. a Barrie train on 5/6 West and a Lakeshore East train on 5/6 East?

It is possible, and I'm baffled why when the plan is to electrify and use a greater number of EMU trainsets, there isn't more of a focus on runthrough operation with fast loading at Union. The station's capacity in a run-through configuration should be much greater than a stop-and-stay configuration.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

If you are observing that government is now competing to spend on infrastructure, I get that. Neither QP nor Ottawa are fiscally conservative, however. The drunken sailor thing has some truth to it.

- Paul

I'll try again....no I am observing that it turns out the new Federal money may not produce much new infrastructure in Ontario...just help the province pay for stuff they already promised and had stated was fully funded and costed into their budgets. Not what I (or I suspect most) thought during the federal election.

 

[crs1026]

I'll try again....no I am observing that it turns out the new Federal money may not produce much new infrastructure in Ontario...just help the province pay for stuff they already promised and had stated was fully funded and costed into their budgets. Not what I (or I suspect most) thought during the federal election.

I get you. Ontario's support for Trudeau may not get more accomplished, as some may have hoped. Putting the debt against Ottawa's deficit, which isn't quite as alarming as if it were carried on Ontario's books, still helps a little, sort of.

- Paul

 

[Adjei]

but for people coming from traditional GO areas and not headed for Spadina/Front (ie. headed for the financial core) will get off the GO train at Downsview Park and add crowds to the subway? Ending any GO lines outside of Union makes no sense.

And why was the Barrie line chosen for this station ? Nobody wants to get dumped off at a station wher their only other connections are a bunch of overcrowded streetcars. Most GO users who are heading downtown are getting off at Union. What sense does it make dropping them so close to Union Station but with no other rapid transit connections. This is one of the most idiotic plans I've heard.

 

[TOareaFan]

And why was the Barrie line chosen for this station ? Nobody wants to get dumped off at a station wher their only other objection at connections are a bunch of overcrowded streetcars. Most GO users who are heading downtown are getting off at Union. What sense does it make dropping them so close to Union Station but with no other rapid transit connections. This is one of the most idiotic plans I've heard.

Maybe, given the wonderful outdoor lifestyle of Barrie, they thought these people were more likely to enjoy climbing up to the new park and strolling along to Union?

 

[Adjei]

I'll try again....no I am observing that it turns out the new Federal money may not produce much new infrastructure in Ontario...just help the province pay for stuff they already promised and had stated was fully funded and costed into their budgets. Not what I (or I suspect most) thought during the federal election.

But in terms of new infrastructure what can they possibly do? Most infrastructure is owned by the provinces and the municipalities. It's not like the Feds own any transit lines in Toronto and can start planning new projects. They are contributing to existing projects from the provinces and the city. That should be their job.

 

[TOareaFan]

But in terms of new infrastructure what can they possibly do? Most infrastructure is owned by the provinces and the municipalities. It's not like the Feds own any transit lines in Toronto and can start planning new projects. They are contributing to existing projects from the provinces and the city. That should be their job.

Maybe they could have said "hey, Ontario municipalities...your province has a long list of projects they have promised and funded....we know you want more so talk to us. toronto, you want to talk to us about the DRL? mississauga you interested in having a chat about Dundas Street RT? Hey, Brampton, that Queen corridor has been on your plate for a while...let's chat".....instead of "we'll help the provincial government build what they already promised and just lower their cost"

They could even have said something like "we think tourism needs a boost too...so we are gonna build a new rail line to Collingwood"

Stuff like that new stuff ...not just contributing to stuff already in the works....not only does funding the same stuff not produce any additional infrastructure...it does not create any additional jobs (a real goal of the feds infrastructure fund)

 

[Allandale25]

And why was the Barrie line chosen for this station ? Nobody wants to get dumped off at a station wher their only other objection at connections are a bunch of overcrowded streetcars. Most GO users who are heading downtown are getting off at Union. What sense does it make dropping them so close to Union Station but with no other rapid transit connections. This is one of the most idiotic plans I've heard.

I wonder when the Barrie media, or people using the Barrie Corridor right now and their associated politicians, will pick up on this fact. Is today the first day we've got clear confirmation that the Barrie Line will terminate at the new Spadina GO Station?

 

[TransitBart]

The Barrie RER line will have a certain utility as a "relief line" in that it will connect to Line 2 at the new Davenport station, and the Crosstown at Caledonia, and maybe eventually to the Finch LRT. So for some with origin.destinations in the Spadina-Front area, it might be useful as an alternative to riding the Line 1 subway to Union. But that feels like a kludge to me, and it doesn't impact the DRL at all.

- Paul

Paul - I agree 100% that RER does not impact the need for DRL one iota.

However - the idea that commuters into the city could get off at Finch Avenue and head east or west (on higher order transit), or get off at Eglinton Ave (Caledonia Station) and head east or west (on higher order transit), or get off at Bloor St (Lansdowne Station) and head east or west (on higher order transit) as opposed to riding in from Barrie all the way to Union is huge. And it' a game changer for GO.

I have colleagues who come from Pickering/Ajax, but refuse to take the GO train all the way to Union and then back to midtown where I work. Thy drive. My guess is that in its current configuration designed to shovel people into Union / downtown, GO is drawing no more than 10 or 15% of the total that it could if commuters could get off and go across the city on any of the lines entering diagonally north/south like Barrie, Kitchener, Rich Hill, or Stoufville

 

[Allandale25]

It's an interesting idea. I'm not sure if I can think of any examples where that has happened. It seems that many, if not all, of the projects over the last few decades have been cost-shared. Even the GO TRIP project was a few years ago.

Maybe we could see this in the future if the PCs come to power and don't want to fund the same things the Federal Government does. You could then have Muni/Fed projects and Muni/Provincial projects. Guess time will tell.

Maybe they could have said "hey, Ontario municipalities...your province has a long list of projects they have promised and funded....we know you want more so talk to us. toronto, you want to talk to us about the DRL? mississauga you interested in having a chat about Dundas Street RT? Hey, Brampton, that Queen corridor has been on your plate for a while...let's chat".....instead of "we'll help the provincial government build what they already promised and just lower their cost"

They could even have said something like "we think tourism needs a boost too...so we are gonna build a new rail line to Collingwood"

Stuff like that new stuff ...not just contributing to stuff already in the works....not only does funding the same stuff not produce any additional infrastructure...it does not create any additional jobs (a real goal of the feds infrastructure fund)