GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[TransitBart]

I feel like the bus service changes to get people used to travelling a certain way so they can later be herded onto trains. It's like setting the bar really low so that when the train arrives, we'll all be grateful it's just sooo much better than the bus.

 

[Jonny5]

I hope people pick that up.


heh... minor changes again.

That Brantford bus is quite a slog, but I suppose it creates real inter-region connectivity where little ever existed. The schedule is missing a lot of connecting Lakeshore West trains, so it looks like you may have to wait 2 hours at times on weekdays.

There has been a noticeable slip in recent times of GO schedules published with inaccurate or missing data. I have come across it ever service change cycle this year.

 

[crs1026]

I feel like a high school teacher.

Doodling images of GO Trains was a favourite Classroom pastime in high school, finally it does me some good

The number of 5-minute adjustments makes me think GO has done some careful thinking about all the pinch points in their last schedule.
It's pretty clear that equipment is stretched to the limit. Ordering new cars is fine in the short term, but hopefully doing track projects and getting better fleet utilization thru turn-backs is getting priority as the ultimate solution.
I wonder why GO thinks Kitchener Line passengers will find their trains will suddenly become busier? Do they expect the 4-train Kitchener service will immediately attract large numbers of riders? They will have to improve the travel time for that.

- Paul

 

[TransitBart]

Doodling images of GO Trains was a favourite Classroom pastime in high school, finally it does me some good

The number of 5-minute adjustments makes me think GO has done some careful thinking about all the pinch points in their last schedule.
It's pretty clear that equipment is stretched to the limit. Ordering new cars is fine in the short term, but hopefully doing track projects and getting better fleet utilization thru turn-backs is getting priority as the ultimate solution.
I wonder why GO thinks Kitchener Line passengers will find their trains will suddenly become busier? Do they expect the 4-train Kitchener service will immediately attract large numbers of riders? They will have to improve the travel time for that.

- Paul

Or - under the heading of *NETWORK* - they think ION can funnel significantly more people into the western terminus of the GO network beginning in 2017, and they want commuters to begin to think along those lines?

PS - why is a train trip sooo long? 2 hours?

 

[mpd618]

I wonder why GO thinks Kitchener Line passengers will find their trains will suddenly become busier? Do they expect the 4-train Kitchener service will immediately attract large numbers of riders? They will have to improve the travel time for that.

Perhaps because of all the new Kitchener buses that connect with trains at Bramalea.

 

[drum118]

Union Bus Terminal was a mad house on Sunday to the point buses were leaving riders behind to catch the next schedule one even with riders standing on the bus.

To make matter worse, the bus bays times we off by an hour or 2 and you need to check the LED screens for time or what every.

I decided to take the bus home in place of doing the transit way and a mistake.

As I near the door, the driver said all full with 26 standees. Next bus due in 30 minutes and it was late departing by 10 minutes. We had 26 standees as well and left 15 behind.

Not sure which bus bay to the east was, but it had enough riders for 3 buses, but only one bus. Customer service was trying to find other routes that some of these riders could use since it was going be a few hour wait to get a bus.

It was a zoo at various times and decided to hold off before to catch the bus. Should had taken the Milton Train which was late as well, but not enough time to catch it.

One thing I noticed on a 2400's bus, next to no leg room and I am 6'.

I really hate to see the mess after the Ex close on Monday and no plans to use the bus that day. Hope GO has more buses around, other wise, long wait.

A few riders lean something new about loading money on their Presto card by the driver and thought it was cool. Over 40's riders.

As why it take 2 hours from KW, poor tracks and dealing with slow speed in Guelph.

I wouldn't count on ION adding many riders to GO Trains once it up and running in 2018.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That Brantford bus is quite a slog, but I suppose it creates real inter-region connectivity where little ever existed. The schedule is missing a lot of connecting Lakeshore West trains, so it looks like you may have to wait 2 hours at times on weekdays.

There has been a noticeable slip in recent times of GO schedules published with inaccurate or missing data. I have come across it ever service change cycle this year.

They had to do something I think, but again, if you're going to introduce a new service, do it right. How will they attract new customers?

I feel like the bus service changes to get people used to travelling a certain way so they can later be herded onto trains. It's like setting the bar really low so that when the train arrives, we'll all be grateful it's just sooo much better than the bus.

Union Bus Terminal was a mad house on Sunday to the point buses were leaving riders behind to catch the next schedule one even with riders standing on the bus.

To make matter worse, the bus bays times we off by an hour or 2 and you need to check the LED screens for time or what every.

I decided to take the bus home in place of doing the transit way and a mistake.

As I near the door, the driver said all full with 26 standees. Next bus due in 30 minutes and it was late departing by 10 minutes. We had 26 standees as well and left 15 behind.

Not sure which bus bay to the east was, but it had enough riders for 3 buses, but only one bus. Customer service was trying to find other routes that some of these riders could use since it was going be a few hour wait to get a bus.

It was a zoo at various times and decided to hold off before to catch the bus. Should had taken the Milton Train which was late as well, but not enough time to catch it.

One thing I noticed on a 2400's bus, next to no leg room and I am 6'.

I really hate to see the mess after the Ex close on Monday and no plans to use the bus that day. Hope GO has more buses around, other wise, long wait.

A few riders lean something new about loading money on their Presto card by the driver and thought it was cool. Over 40's riders.

As why it take 2 hours from KW, poor tracks and dealing with slow speed in Guelph.

I wouldn't count on ION adding many riders to GO Trains once it up and running in 2018.

Lo and behold Bart...bad service.

 

[TransitBart]

Doodling images of GO Trains was a favourite Classroom pastime in high school, finally it does me some good

The number of 5-minute adjustments makes me think GO has done some careful thinking about all the pinch points in their last schedule.
It's pretty clear that equipment is stretched to the limit. Ordering new cars is fine in the short term, but hopefully doing track projects and getting better fleet utilization thru turn-backs is getting priority as the ultimate solution.
I wonder why GO thinks Kitchener Line passengers will find their trains will suddenly become busier? Do they expect the 4-train Kitchener service will immediately attract large numbers of riders? They will have to improve the travel time for that.

- Paul

So to the point from @crs1026 about the fleet being stretched, here are three links:

1. To the first, at the Canadian Public Transit Wiki (who knew) - there is a 125 car order in process - 65 cab cars and 60 coaches = 125 pcs = 12 x 12 car consists - delivery complete next year - let's assume that half are here.

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/GO_Transit_Series_IX_BiLevel_cars

2. Then 6 weeks back, another order was placed for 125 more coaches due from 2018 to 2020 - this is another 12 x 12 car consists

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bombardier-go-transit-1.3703829

3. Finally - GO has some of the cleanest (EPA Tier 4 compliant) diesel locomotives in the world coming - MP54AC: 1 (converted unit) and 16 on order - and this would put say 12 or 13 more consists on the tracks each day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_MPXpress

Considering that the fleet is well over 500 coaches and 75 locomotives (wikipedia anyone?) and due to grow by say 50% in two years, wouldn't that put paid to the fleet stretched picture?

Aside: on a per ride basis, this has to be one of the most expensive and underused fleets in the world sitting most of the day at Union or some other terminus. All day could not arrive soon enough. Line 1 and Line 2 operate with about 1/3 more cars each and carry two to three times the passengers per day.

Also -no wonder they are building layover yards all over the place. We need a lot of parking for around 1000 rail cars. And then pile the EMU fleet on top of that.

Comments. Questions. Feedback. Complaints.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So to the point from @crs1026 about the fleet being stretched, here are three links:

1. At the first at the Canadian Public Transit Wiki (who knew) - there is a 125 car order in process - 65 cab cars and 60 coaches = 125 pcs = 12 x 12 car consists - delivery complete next year - let's assume that half are here.

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/GO_Transit_Series_IX_BiLevel_cars

2. Then 6 weeks back, another order was placed for 125 more coaches due from 2018 to 2020 - this is another 12 x 12 car consists

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bombardier-go-transit-1.3703829

3. Finally - GO has some of the cleanest (EPA Tier 4 compliant) diesel locomotives in the world coming - MP54AC: 1 (converted unit) and 16 on order - and this would put say 12 or 13 more consists on the tracks each day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_MPXpress

Considering that the fleet is well over 500 coaches and 75 locomotives (wikipedia anyone?) and due to grow by say 50% in two years, wouldn't that put paid to the fleet stretched picture?

Aside: on a per ride basis, this has to be one of the most expensive and underused fleets in the world sitting most of the day at Union or some other terminus. All day could not arrive soon enough. Line 1 and Line 2 operate with about 1/3 more cars each and carry two to three times the passengers per day.

Also -no wonder they are building layover yards all over the place. We need a lot of parking for around 1000 rail cars. And then pile the EMU fleet on top of that.

Comments. Questions. Feedback. Complaints.

They need to go on a hiring spree and finish the damn tracks where ever they are. Also why the new layover yards? They have enough.

 

[steveintoronto]

I wonder why GO thinks Kitchener Line passengers will find their trains will suddenly become busier? Do they expect the 4-train Kitchener service will immediately attract large numbers of riders? They will have to improve the travel time for that.

It raises an interesting point. Agreed on travel time, btw. It's brutal, even from Guelph, and the 'go slow' is on the other side of Guelph, but also agreed on the limited demand for more trains. Is the greater option desirable? For some, yes, but the amount of new riders it will appeal to will be minimal. It will just take riders off of the other two existing runs (each way).

But the logic applied to this increase (more option, 'build it and they will come') must also be applied to all-day off peak three car trains running Bramalea/Union. The potential for building ridership is *magnitudes* greater, and *immediately* due to the travel time possible between Bramalea and Union since it is a Metrolinx owned corridor (with only minimal trackage missing to make it happen).

So there's enough stock presently to run two extra 10 car consists a day peak to K/W? It can only be political pandering behind that...but still, utilizing that same 20 cars of stock with some other juggled in (cab cars) could be running all-day three car consists Bramalea-Union and back on a half-hourly schedule. And large numbers of local buses could be reconfigured to mesh meeting to feed those trains.

I think the following may have something to do with the politics of the extra runs to K/W:

Daiene Vernile, MPP (Kitchener Centre)

Current Parliamentary Roles
Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Transportation

Vice-Chair, Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Member, Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs

Party
Ontario Liberal Party

I don't know if she squeaked in last election, but Liz Sandals for Guelph certainly just did. And she's in the Cabinet.

I leave it at that for now. And in case anyone wonders, I'm non-partisan, I take issue with all parties on many points.

Edit to Add: In fairness, the extra runs to K/W are extensions of present runs to Georgetown, IIRC, but the point stands, there's enough stock to do Bramalea/Union half-hourly with three-car consists. What's missing is the *political imperative*.

 

[crs1026]

We spectators have an imperfect view of GO's fleet acquisitions. We know that some of those cars are almost 40 years old, but we don't know how soon GO expects them to reach end of life. As a wild guess I would say that GO is ordering two cars to increase its fleet by one car by the time the order is delivered.

Price a single 12-car GO trainset, including cost of a layover track at the extremity, plus a layover track in the City where it lays over between rush hours. Easily $40M per trainset. Plus annual maintenance cost.

If GO could turn back even two train sets on each of Milton, Kitchener, Barrie, Richmond Hill and Lincolnville, that's a good way to paying for the 2-way capacity needed for RER.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

The conscious choice of the government to delay roll-out of substantial service improvements, which are technically possible now is really peculiar.

For a gov't that is rather unpopular, improvements in these corridors can be big sellers w/their core voters, and at relatively little cost.

Even if GO lost 50M on new service, that's only 0.0025 % of the provincial budget.

In other words easy to cover the cost of, whether through re-allocation or new revenue.

I assume next year will be the big rollout year ahead of a 2018 election.......but I think it would be politically wise to go sooner than later, as overtly political moves only weeks or months in front of elections often have the opposite effect on voters one might predict.

They (the prov. Libs) also have a big hole to climb out of.............granted 2 years is an eternity in politics......

 

[steveintoronto]

If GO could turn back even two train sets on each of Milton, Kitchener, Barrie, Richmond Hill and Lincolnville, that's a good way to paying for the 2-way capacity needed for RER.

Price a single 12-car GO trainset, including cost of a layover track at the extremity, plus a layover track in the City where it lays over between rush hours. Easily $40M per trainset. Plus annual maintenance cost.

Some would quibble with your ballpark costing, and completely miss the point. The exact dollar figures aren't the issue, it's the spending of them for virtually *no apparent traction* practicably or politically, when similar amounts, as you state, would make a *marked difference*. There hasn't been a dramatic announcement of that sort since...well...UPX. And that was a Cadillac. For the Chosen Few.

RER/SomewhatSmartTrack/Weston Sub half-hourly can be done with the dregs. The old Chevy sitting at the back of the lot waiting to be remelted. Except the F59s are as good or better than the day they were bought, rebuilt 5 years ago! Upgraded systems. Established North Am transit systems still use them as their basic fleet.

And Queen's Park completely misses the picture...

RER (a segment of) could be up and running in six months with what we already have. And it would have huge political optics. Not least because this is exactly what the GTA is hungry for. Something substantial to change the nature of how this city moves. And Tory can get his jollies in too. Anyone familiar with what the Acton GO station looks like? Well...that's all you need to get started for SomewhatSmartTrack-on-a-budget. Forget the palaces, people stuck on transit or on the highways will take any reasonable alternative. Establish the crudest of SmartTrack stations with bus shelters for now. Metrolinx makes a deal: The Municipality builds the station, RER stops there. What will suffice? How about what Mi-Way has at Square One for interchange with GO? Basically a series of bus shelters, but that's all that's needed, that all most GO train stations were in the beginning.

And all the pieces are already in Metrolinx' domain to get pre-RER up and running.

Acton GO station:

 

[johntauren]

Union Bus Terminal was a mad house on Sunday to the point buses were leaving riders behind to catch the next schedule one even with riders standing on the bus.

To make matter worse, the bus bays times we off by an hour or 2 and you need to check the LED screens for time or what every.

I assume this was later in the evening, it was fine around four pm.

They still haven't learned that the place gets packed between Fan Expo closing and the CNE after 5, with standing room only for a half-hour frequency route. (It's why I left just a bit earlier, the bus was not packed before 5) And they're lucky the Jays weren't in town this weekend this time.
This happens every year.

 

[TOareaFan]

tough day for new schedule: