GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[innsertnamehere]

Stouffville is the worst for at grade crossings, and Barrie isn't much better.

Kitchener is a dream compared to those two, Kitchener is now entirely separated in the city.

 

[mdrejhon]

Any statistics of how many of those level crossings are south of Mt Joy and south of Unionville? Most level crossings are north of those.

Especially as the Stoufville corridor double tracking project will deal with many level crossings remaining south of Unionville (as an an already-budgeted item separate of RER budget).

 

[ShonTron]

I would imagine that electricified 15-minute (and more frequent during peak) GO RER corridors would have be 100% grade separated. I don't see any way to feasibly keep grade crossings even at minor roads, when gates have to stay closed more than half the time during peak period in both directions. Fortunately, the 13.5 billon budget should have room to pretty much pay for the remaining few level grade separations that still exist in the planned RER corridors.

Being completely free of level road crossing rules, it will be massively easier (from "mission impossible" down to "mission barely possible") to lobby waivers from Transport Canada, to get away from heavy rail requirements and give GO more trainset flexibility. Hello, sleek European-style trains!

Nope. There are trains every 15 minutes in the peak period/direction on the Lakeshore East Line (plus VIA trains) between Guildwood and Rouge Hill. There are no plans to grade-separate those crossings. The same between Dixie Road and Southdown Road through Mississauga. We could also mention LRT lines in Calgary and Edmonton that have plenty of railway crossings with 2 and 3 car LRT trains operating as frequently as every 5 minutes. Or the outer ends of Chicago's Pink and Brown Lines.

I don't see the immediate justification for grade-separating minor the crossings like Mill and John Streets in Brampton, Scarboro Street in Malton, Revus Avenue in Mississauga, or Galloway Road in Scarborough, even if you run more frequent trains.

 

[mdrejhon]

Nope. There are trains every 15 minutes in the peak period/direction on the Lakeshore East Line (plus VIA trains) between Guildwood and Rouge Hill. There are no plans to grade-separate those crossings. The same between Dixie Road and Southdown Road through Mississauga. We could also mention LRT lines in Calgary and Edmonton that have plenty of railway crossings with 2 and 3 car LRT trains operating as frequently as every 5 minutes. Or the outer ends of Chicago's Pink and Brown Lines.

I don't see the immediate justification for grade-separating minor the crossings like Mill and John Streets in Brampton, Scarboro Street in Malton, Revus Avenue in Mississauga, or Galloway Road in Scarborough, even if you run more frequent trains.

It's possible to operate such service, but there's a big distinction between streetcar-sized LRTs and massive 12-car bilevels, which probably will continue to run Lakeshore RER (electric locomotive driven) swallowing up the newly ordered Bombardier coaches/cabs, even if the route that need EMU benefits the most (Bramalea-Stoufville with "SmartTrack" infill stations) convert to a new trainset. Also, upgraded 15-min 2-way can mean crossings on both sides around every 7.5 minutes offpeak. During peak, it could be even more frequent. For the huge bilevels, grade crossings need to close earlier and longer, than they would need to for a slower 1-car or 2-car LRT. Accidents at level crossings have been a thorn on GO Transits' side from time to time, and increased service typically comes with increased accidents. Also, if they dead-head lots of non-FRA trains to the Whitby maintenance centre, we might need to physically separate GO RER from the road network.

From what I see:
-- RER electricifation won't reach Mill/John streets. Less urgent until RER reaches Brampton, and/or HSR gets approved.
-- Scarboro grade separation is actually planned (unless that's cancelled), drum118 mentioned this too, so RER Bramalea will likely be fully grade separated. Also, concurrent 15-min RER and 15-min peak diesel, excluding other services (i.e. VIA) can mean grade crossing is closed longer than open during peak period, given the required at-grade closing length.
-- Galloway Road, and many Lakeshore East level crossings are trenchable (minimizes expropriation, if any needed) so not a particularly super-expensive grade separation compared to quite a few in the Georgetown corridor, and Lakeshore East is going to be much more heavily used when the Whitby maintenance center opens.
-- GTA traffic is predicted to increase over the next 10 years, and electrified trains may run faster as well. Both inceases level crossing risk. Also, above and beyond this, consider increased level-crossing traffic resulting by nearby Guildwood merely getting 15-min two way service.

Based on precedent of Metrolinx doing grade separations, my view is that I think Metrolinx already intends that GO RER will be become fully grade separated within the electricified area (Aldershot/Oshawa/Bramalea/Mt Joy/Unionville terminuses).

 

[MrsNesbitt]

So GO Transit has been practically imploding today.

Due to "an incident involving a VIA train in Markham", there have been enormous delays on both Lakeshore and Stouffville. Lakeshore East has been simply not running any trains for a good few hours now.

On top of that, every single line except Richmond Hill is experiencing at least one >20 minute delay.

Wow.

 

[mdrejhon]

So GO Transit has been practically imploding today.

Due to "an incident involving a VIA train in Markham", there have been enormous delays on both Lakeshore and Stouffville. Lakeshore East has been simply not running any trains for a good few hours now.

On top of that, every single line except Richmond Hill is experiencing at least one >20 minute delay.

Wow.

Chaos today. Both the morning amd evening. This is the worst GO commute day I have ever encountered. My incoming delayed by an hour due to operational issue/severed cable. My return, which I am still sitting on as I speak, is after an hour wait after a cancelled 543pm and undesirably packed 613pm. Murphy Law had a field day today.

Just chaos today.

Metrolinx does not want to see many of these days during GO RER.

 

[mdrejhon]

Even York concourse was busy today -- first time I had seen it that busy. Seemed like four Lakeshore East trains clogged up, and cascaded to several consecutive cancellations. One poor GO sign even crashed from the confusion (under platform 25, entered via york east teamway, for readers at Metrolinx wondering).

One thing I certainly learned today, while exploring Union, is there is a conveniently direct entrance to UPX at the very west end of Platform 3, easily bypassing the Skywalk. Not sure if this will be an operational entrance or just an emergency exit.

 

[salsa]

According to the star, a man was hit by a VIA train at the underpass of Markham Rd & Eglinton. He is still alive but with critical injuries.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Interesring way of calculating whether a grade crossing is warranted. Those few dozen of Burloak car commuters look mighty displeased at my Lakeshore West GO train earlier today at the large level crossing. The road exposure index of that one must already be getting into the red zone soon, if not already deep into it at rush hour. Fortunately, that one looks like trenching goes to the road rather than the railroad, so no grade change to the rail.

Burloak is by far the worst, IIRC the index for that crossing was over a million even before 1/2 hr service. It's ridiculous that they haven't grade separated it yet. I don't understand just WTF Halton region is thinking continually pushing back the start date. And if I had a dime for every time I've had to stop to protect that crossing I could of retired by now - ok not really but its well into the double digits over the last several years. Alexandra Ave is another bad one for that. And although today's incident didn't come at a crossing it's ridiculously how many pedestrians have been killed in crossing accidents - many of which are not suicides. I've become extremely cautious myself when it comes to going over any rail crossing. Over the years I've seen my fair share of inoperative or damaged crossings there's no way I can completely trust the system when it comes to crossing protection. If the sightlines are poor and I can't see at least a mile down in each direction I practically come to a complete stop before the gates and double check that each direction is clear before proceeding.

Metrolinx does not want to see many of these days during GO RER.

Unfortunately there's little that GO can do to prevent these kinds of situations and the resulting delays from happening in the future.

 

[nfitz]

Your wrong in using information referenced from the FRA to back up your point.

I admit I was wrong in assuming that the US rules about just using regular grade crossings up until about 175 km/hr would apply here.

But I don't really know why we are still discussing it, given that the Canadian rules are that you can just use regular grade crossings up until about 175 km/hr.

So instead of using following the US rules and increasing speed between Kitchener and Guelph by upgrading the level crossings, I'll amend my suggestion and say that we follow the Canadian rules and increasing speed between Kitchener and Guelph by upgrading the level crossings.

 

[Jonny5]

According to the star, a man was hit by a VIA train at the underpass of Markham Rd & Eglinton. He is still alive but with critical injuries.

Is there space for a pedestrian path from somewhere like the Eglinton GO Station north east to Guildwood? These corridors really are major time savers when you are walking somewhere as they are the only diagonal route through some messy suburban street grids. You aren't going to get people off of them when the danger is so abstract or perceived to be easily avoided. There is a nice path adjacent to this same line from Coxwell to Greenwood that includes a tunnel connection to the opposite side of the tracks half way through. Perhaps that should be replicated there.

 

[Markster]

It's a good question what this person was doing. Was he walking along the tracks to cut a diagonal? Was he crossing the tracks to avoid a long walk around? Was he suicidal?

If its either of the former, then they should be looking into ways to accommodate those trips, if people are clearly willing to do risky things to make that much of a travel savings. If it's the latter, then really, there's nothing to be done, as you can't really stop someone determined to get on the tracks.

Either way, the actual response is likely going to be taller, stronger fences.

 

[EnviroTO]

The project they are getting started on the Stouffville line seems like the most poorly thought out plan I have ever seen. No grade separated crossings added, and no curve smoothing to allow speeds above 60km/h. That is crazy. For a subway route 60km/h is fine, but for regional rail the 60km/h curves should at least be brought up to 80km/h, 100km/h ideally. The number of level crossings seems completely unreasonable for RER service.

 

[nfitz]

It's a good question what this person was doing. Was he walking along the tracks to cut a diagonal? Was he crossing the tracks to avoid a long walk around? Was he suicidal?

The way they were reporting it on the radio last night it sounded like they were linking it the death of this man, to someone who was murdered nearby about 30 minutes earlier. As such, I don't think that the pathway would likely have been an issue.

www.newstalk1010.com/news/2015/05/08/breaking-news-possible-murder-attempted-suicide-in-torontos-east-end

Given the lack of updates on the murder, presumably this was suicide. And as such, there is little that can done by the railway to prevent such things.

Police have confirmed this was an attempted suicide, after he murdered someone. http://www.680news.com/2015/05/10/man-charged-with-ex-girlfriends-scarborough-murder/

 

[mdrejhon]

The project they are getting started on the Stouffville line seems like the most poorly thought out plan I have ever seen. No grade separated crossings added, and no curve smoothing to allow speeds above 60km/h. That is crazy. For a subway route 60km/h is fine, but for regional rail the 60km/h curves should at least be brought up to 80km/h, 100km/h ideally. The number of level crossings seems completely unreasonable for RER service.

With the infill stations going to be added for SmartTrack on the Stoufville line, and the possibility of tight headways (sub-15min) during peak, I agree they need to eliminate the level crossings. I thought that was part of the eventual plan, at least? Any information they will not upgrade those within the next 5-to-10 years?