GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[salsa]

Is there space for a pedestrian path from somewhere like the Eglinton GO Station north east to Guildwood? These corridors really are major time savers when you are walking somewhere as they are the only diagonal route through some messy suburban street grids. You aren't going to get people off of them when the danger is so abstract or perceived to be easily avoided.

Your idea has been identified as a possible route in a 2012 trails plan document. It's hard to see because of the thick line that is the ward boundary, but one day the existing trail could be extended east to Guildwood and also west to Scarborough GO.

It's not a high priority at the moment and no studies have been done on it, however the city is developing a new 10-year cycling plan. If you feel strongly about this particular route then you can attend a public consultation meeting (to be announced) and let them know, or drop a comment in this survey. Whatever input is received from the public will help the city determine it's top priorities for the next 10 years.

For now at least, a short trail does exist between Brimley and Eglinton GO. It's surprisingly nice actually. You can hardly see the rail corridor through the lush greenery.

 

[Jonny5]

According to the star, a man was hit by a VIA train at the underpass of Markham Rd & Eglinton. He is still alive but with critical injuries.

It turns out this was a suicide attempt by the man who murdered a mother of three on Danzig Avenue 30 minutes earlier.

 

[mdrejhon]

It looks like on Google Street View, it is trivial to just clamber down from Markham, down the embankment to the rail underneath. If you could add very tall fences at the overpass, connected to the fence underneath, it may have helped -- we may mever know how determined he was or that he might have just decided to do some other terrible disruption (like running into car traffic) or something less so (turning himself, calling a suicide help line, drinking paint thinner). Very terrible thing that has happened on multiple fronts, and we need to remember someone got murdered, not just upset commuters.

From GO's perspective, This was a major disruption for over a hundred thousand commuters GTA wide as the GO network delays cascaded massively. Posibly caused a small few to stop using GO. It brings the question: What could we do better over the next 10 years that GO is able to do?

 

[nfitz]

It looks like on Google Street View, it is trivial to just clamber down from Markham, down the embankment to the rail underneath. If you could add very tall fences at the overpass, connected to the fence underneath, ...

Traditionally in such situations one simply jumps off the overpass. Fencing isn't going to change that.

Suicide barriers may have some use to stop suicides of opportunity (subway platforms, high bridges), but will do nothing to stop someone who has 100% made up their mind.

 

[mdrejhon]

True, there is the suicide prevention angle, and the GO service disruption angle. One or the other can be focussed on, or both at the same time (e.g. the way Prince Edward Viaduct has a suicide help line & a suicide prevention barrier).

Due to GO's scale of network, it does not have to be that elaborate, but even a simple 7-foot-tall chain link can be a more daunting prospect than a 3-foot guardrail -- helping further GO's reduction of disruptions. I am wondering how other countries handles such railroad incursions. There's a big difference between 3-entire-rail-line cancelling disruptions per summer, and 1-entire-line. The same disruption happening tomorrow in GO RER days, will be far more vast than today.

 

[TOareaFan]

Bit of a rough day down at the Ex yesterday.

Firstly, a train that was scheduled to arrive around kick off time for the TFC match (I have to presume the EB train that would arrive at 5) was 45 or so minutes late leaving the new stadium visibily missing some folks (it really is a great transit success story how many people use/rely on GO to get them to the matches) for the first half of their first match in the new stadium.....big difference in the second half.

Then the first train that arrived for the WB trip after the match was a ten car consist leaving hundreds of people standing waiting between where the 12th car and 10th car would stop on the platform clamouring to get further east on the platform and cram into a train that was already stuffed......result was an avoidable (IMO) bad customer service experience (a bit of discomfort, a bit of poor safety and a many people I overheard saying things like "can't rely on these guys" "should have just drove" "even with a few beers in me I would rather drive") that was not helped by the operator of the train pointing and laughing at the people who, frankly, did nothing wrong.

And, of course, the crowding/cramming caused the train to leave Exhibition about 15 minutes late.

As someone who uses GO relatively frequently.....I get that this is not the norm......but a lot of those people using the train to get to TFC matches are not regular users.....very little happened yesterday that would lead to the conclusion that they may become so.

 

[mdrejhon]

I agree, very shameful first-impression of potential future-GO-commuters who won't think twice of taking GO.
I think they could have handled this better -- and if such people behave strangely (e.g. inexperienced commuters cramming the end of a train), that the Metrolinx staff should have helped instead of laughed at them!

There's a good reason to teach inexperienced commuters (e.g. event commuters, like a soccer game or PanAm games) to spread down the platform to board the train faster.

Metrolinx needs to come up with a 'plan' to gracefully handle unexpected "inexperienced commuter" behavior during the upcoming PanAm, when there's a surge of first-time GO users. Perhaps Metrolinx needs to create a new PowerPoint file to teach their staff to more efficiently handle unexpected surges of inexperienced first-time commuters like what happened at the TFC match, who may inadvertently overload one car while keeping the other end of the train empty. This also including teaching train drivers and GO attendantes not to laugh at strange commuter behavior -- perhaps because these are simply inexperienced commuters that are often unaware how long GOtrains are and actually fills the whole platform length.

The quotes that occured among these probable-first-time GO commuters, coming from a sports event, don't sound good for Metrolinx:
..."can't rely on these guys"...
..."should have just drove"...
..."even with a few beers in me I would rather drive"...
If you are saying, that these are actual quotes that inexperienced GO commuters said...

Metrolinx, stat!

 

[TOareaFan]

I agree, very shameful first-impression of potential future-GO-commuters who won't think twice of taking GO.
I think they could have handled this better -- and if such people behave strangely (e.g. inexperienced commuters cramming the end of a train), that the Metrolinx staff should have helped instead of laughed at them!

There's a good reason to teach inexperienced commuters (e.g. event commuters, like a soccer game or PanAm games) to spread down the platform to board the train faster.

Metrolinx needs to come up with a 'plan' to gracefully handle unexpected "inexperienced commuter" behavior during the upcoming PanAm, when there's a surge of first-time GO users. Perhaps Metrolinx needs to create a new PowerPoint file to teach their staff to more efficiently handle unexpected surges of inexperienced first-time commuters like what happened at the TFC match, who may inadvertently overload one car while keeping the other end of the train empty. This also including teaching train drivers and GO attendantes not to laugh at strange commuter behavior -- perhaps because these are simply inexperienced commuters that are often unaware how long GOtrains are and actually fills the whole platform length.

The quotes that occured among these probable-first-time GO commuters, coming from a sports event, don't sound good for Metrolinx:
..."can't rely on these guys"...
..."should have just drove"...
..."even with a few beers in me I would rather drive"...
If you are saying, that these are actual quotes that inexperienced GO commuters said...

Metrolinx, stat!

They were actual quotes I overheard....but lets be clear here...it was not just inexeperienced commuters who ended up jamming into the lead car on that WB train........some were (and I am included here) people who intentionally stood at the west end (by the "12" sign) because I knew that was the end of the train that was best for disembarking at my destination......the first mistake (well the first one after not getting the station renos done already...how long have they been going on) was not manipulating their trains well enough to make sure the first train that arrived after the match was a 12 car train not a 10 car train.

 

[wopchop]

Bit of a rough day down at the Ex yesterday.

Firstly, a train that was scheduled to arrive around kick off time for the TFC match (I have to presume the EB train that would arrive at 5) was 45 or so minutes late leaving the new stadium visibily missing some folks (it really is a great transit success story how many people use/rely on GO to get them to the matches) for the first half of their first match in the new stadium.....big difference in the second half.

Then the first train that arrived for the WB trip after the match was a ten car consist leaving hundreds of people standing waiting between where the 12th car and 10th car would stop on the platform clamouring to get further east on the platform and cram into a train that was already stuffed......result was an avoidable (IMO) bad customer service experience (a bit of discomfort, a bit of poor safety and a many people I overheard saying things like "can't rely on these guys" "should have just drove" "even with a few beers in me I would rather drive") that was not helped by the operator of the train pointing and laughing at the people who, frankly, did nothing wrong.

And, of course, the crowding/cramming caused the train to leave Exhibition about 15 minutes late.

As someone who uses GO relatively frequently.....I get that this is not the norm......but a lot of those people using the train to get to TFC matches are not regular users.....very little happened yesterday that would lead to the conclusion that they may become so.

They need to start adjusting Lakeshore West service, perhaps by adding special event trains for days like these.

Another thing, I was on that same westbound train right after the match, and yeah, people were being dumb by not moving down, but GO has done a terrible job with signage at that platform. There was the orange sign in the middle of the tracks that said "12" with a eastbound pointing arrow, but that is meaningless to anyone but a regular commuter (and even then ...). They like to just announce things on the PA, but you can't control big crowds with the PA system. You need someone on the platform directing people.

Also, what the hell is taking so long with the renovations at Exhibition. It's been years, right?

 

[drum118]

They need to start adjusting Lakeshore West service, perhaps by adding special event trains for days like these.

Another thing, I was on that same westbound train right after the match, and yeah, people were being dumb by not moving down, but GO has done a terrible job with signage at that platform. There was the orange sign in the middle of the tracks that said "12" with a eastbound pointing arrow, but that is meaningless to anyone but a regular commuter (and even then ...). They like to just announce things on the PA, but you can't control big crowds with the PA system. You need someone on the platform directing people.

Also, what the hell is taking so long with the renovations at Exhibition. It's been years, right?

Metrolinx doesn't have the staff to management most projects. They become make work projects when they have the money to do it as well having crews filling in when things are slow on other sites. Also training ground on how to screw projects up. This one has being going longer than the Clarkson and Burlington projects.

Any contractor doing this type of work in the real world would be loosing a boat load of money, toss off the site and not allow to bid on new projects. The bonding company would be charging an arm and leg in the way of payment for that bond, if they keep the contractor on the books.

Expect to see special trains added on days when more service is needed and they could run express.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

that was not helped by the operator of the train pointing and laughing at the people who, frankly, did nothing wrong.

I think they could have handled this better -- and if such people behave strangely (e.g. inexperienced commuters cramming the end of a train), that the Metrolinx staff should have helped instead of laughed at them!

Sorry to hear about your difficulties and if he was indeed pointing directly at someone and laughing that's not condonable. I asked him about it and he said he wasn't pointing or laughing at anyone in particular but rather he was pointing at the 10 car marker so that people would know where to wait as most trains are still only 10 cars long. And he said wasn't laughing at the people but at the situation. He brought up a good point - are we banned from laughing on the job now? I mean are we not only human? I've let out a chuckle or two in the past when I see a bazillion people trying to cram into the first coach and all the while nobody is getting on the very next coach. Just don't get it sometimes

Most often the CSA will make announcements directing people to walk down to the next coach(s). When there is a massive crowd on the platform like that we are not in a huge rush to leave. We'll wait as long as it takes for people to get on board. This helps at little but the majority still follow a herd mentality. Sure it sucks that the train turned out to only be 10 coaches long instead of 12 but sometimes things don't work out the way you plan them. Trains get delayed or changed out on a regular basis. But when you see a couple hundred people trying to cram onto that last coach you gotta know its not going to be a comfortable experience.

Does GO really need employees on the platform telling people what coach to board on? Can passengers really not capable of directing themselves in these situations? Certainly the train crew is not going to be able to do that, it may not look like it but we have many much more serious responsibility to attend to then directing people when stopped i.e. monitoring the passenger alarm system(visual & audible alarm), monitoring the standby radio change for emergencies(audible only), monitoring the brake system(i.e make sure they don't bleed off so that the train doesn't roll when loading - this has happened!), just to name a few of the more important ones. Aside from that, there's no way we'd be able to get out onto the platform with a huge mob of people trying to jam into the first coach to begin with. I usually have to wait about 5 minutes or more for people to board at union station during rush hour just to get to the washroom. Even when I'm attending to a passenger assist(possible emergency situation) many people still don't listen when I ask them to step aside and continue to block my path.

If anyone dropped the ball its operations. Even if they aren't aware of the game, though they should be, they have camera's at ever station so they can monitor crowding situations. Often times they will tell us in advance to approach a platform cautiously if its dangerously over crowed and they have the ability to make platform announcements at any station. They could of made announcements in advance that the next train is only 10 cars long. However, if a platform is completely packed, as if often is post game, even that's not really going to make a difference. People will still be stuck standing well past the 10th car. So the only real solution is to make every train 12 cars. Makes me wonder whats going to happen when we get to RER service and trains will only be 5 or 6 cars long. Can you imagine? Obviously the increased frequency will help, but exhibition can get quite packed post TFC game in avery short amount of time.

 

[TOareaFan]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties and if he was indeed pointing directly at someone and laughing that's not condonable. I asked him about it and he said he wasn't pointing or laughing at anyone in particular but rather he was pointing at the 10 car marker so that people would know where to wait as most trains are still only 10 cars long. And he said wasn't laughing at the people but at the situation. He brought up a good point - are we banned from laughing on the job now? I mean are we not only human?

Of course laughter is not banned.....but we do (in any profession) have to consider our actions in the context of the situation.....and, let's be clear, I was not personally offended....but, as noted, there were a lot people there not used to loading onto GO trains and pannicking that they would a) get separated from their group b) get left behind or some other situation....most have no idea what he is pointing at or laughing at....and the words "why is he laughing at us" were uttered repeatedly.d

I've let out a chuckle or two in the past when I see a bazillion people trying to cram into the first coach and all the while nobody is getting on the very next coach. Just don't get it sometimes

Again conext....thousands of people come through a tunnel....a tunnel that until the last game of last year's TFC season (the last time many of these people rode a GO train) was at the middle of the train...it is now the west end of a 12 car train and beyond the west end of a 10 car train....the first two stops the train will go to are optimized for west end exit...some people wait at the 12 or between the 10 and the 12....more people come out of the tunnel and you can announce over your fuzzy PA "please spread out to the east" as many times as you like.....but people have no where to go. Perhaps if one (or more) of those announcements had said "the next train is only 10 cars long.....don't wait at the west end" or something more meaningful than "please spread out" it might of helped....but the reality is as people come out of that tunnel there is nowhere to go.

Does GO really need employees on the platform telling people what coach to board on? Can passengers really not capable of directing themselves in these situations?

See above...what information (in any form) did GO give to people to know what situation they were directing themselves in........

Certainly the train crew is not going to be able to do that, it may not look like it but we have many much more serious responsibility to attend to then directing people when stopped i.e. monitoring the passenger alarm system(visual & audible alarm), monitoring the standby radio change for emergencies(audible only), monitoring the brake system(i.e make sure they don't bleed off so that the train doesn't roll when loading - this has happened!), just to name a few of the more important ones.

No one suggested the crew should/could get out....the only mention of the crew in my post was that it did not help the situation when they started pointing and laughing.

If anyone dropped the ball its operations. Even if they aren't aware of the game, though they should be, they have camera's at ever station so they can monitor crowding situations. Often times they will tell us in advance to approach a platform cautiously if its dangerously over crowed and they have the ability to make platform announcements at any station. They could of made announcements in advance that the next train is only 10 cars long. However, if a platform is completely packed, as if often is post game, even that's not really going to make a difference. People will still be stuck standing well past the 10th car. So the only real solution is to make every train 12 cars. Makes me wonder whats going to happen when we get to RER service and trains will only be 5 or 6 cars long. Can you imagine? Obviously the increased frequency will help, but exhibition can get quite packed post TFC game in avery short amount of time.

Honestly, and this is a result of recent circumstances/events I am sure....the only thing that security officers at the station were at all concerned about was that no one was on or over the yellow line....they just kept repeatedely walking up and down the yellow line and moving people back. Serious issue for sure....but it was not the biggest problem at that station that day.

 

[Jonny5]

I was in a similar situation at Exhibition a few weeks ago after an event. There were indeed many signs indicating that the train boarding area began east of the tunnel exit. There are signs along the fence counting down the distance.

"Train boarding area 200m <----"
"Train boarding area 150m <----"
"Train boarding area 100m <----"
"Train boarding area 50m <----"

I physically pointed this out to some people who looked at me, then looked at the sign, then looked at me puzzled. Then I explained that they had to walk to the east to get on the train.

They didn't move.

The train arrived and hundreds of people at the far west of the platform ran in a panic to cram into the front two cars to the point they were beyond crush loaded. The train sat for several minutes trying to accommodate them while the CSA pleaded with people to move down the train platform to board, stating clearly there were empty seats in his car. They didn't move. Indeed there were about 30 people left on the platform. My car at the rear of the train had over 100 empty seats.

This happens all the time. I've taken probably one thousand weekend train trips over decades and this happens every single time. It doesn't matter how many signs or announcements they make. The oinly left to try is holding people's hands and walking them to where they should go.

Two months ago I got on a train going west around 11:00pm at the same time a concert let out from the ACC. People streamed up the stairs from the BAY concourse and crush loaded the two cars at the top of the stairs. Meanwhile the front cars of the train sat empty. The one I boarded at the very front had 6 people on it. Just 6. Yet, again, people were left on the platform, despite the train sitting there for 5 minutes giving everyone time to move.

The lesson is: you can't fix stupid.

 

[mdrejhon]

A discreet chuckle/smile hidden in the cab is probably ok, but overt laughing and pointing clearly while leaning out of an open window or temporarily opened locomotive cab door (in the process of doublechecking clearances but then suddenly proceeding to obviously point amd laugh) to the point where multiple people actually apparently complained about the laughing attention, make them like previous decade TTC employees.

In comparison, most GO staff have been usually exemplary and nice, mind you...

This is also, of course, a tricky crowd herding exercise that has been difficult to solve. The bunchup of confused people prevents willi people from going down the platform, so it is chaos. I wonder if part of the Exhibition delay is they found some flaws in crowd flow engineerong and put a stop work order, to try to come up with a solution, then had to focus on the priority projects elsewhere in GO.... One has to think, since crowd flow engineering is extremely important for the upcoming PanAm. Maybe man about 5 employees full time on the Exhibition platform for better crowd flow to the events happening near there. Recruit some PanAm volunteers? Give them neon flags or neon PanAm "#1" foam fingers, or those airport tarmac hand batons. "Train stops over there. Move down platform please. Thank you! " with the air of authority of uniform. Solved.

 

[nfitz]

I was on the eastbound Exhibition platform. The signage didn't seem too clear to me. Perhaps it would make more sense if there weren't hundreds of people standing in front of it.

I walked down to the platform and turned left, to discover to my surprise much of the platform was gone. I idly walked up to the end to take a look at the construction, and there were to GO security there, who did kindly point out that the train would be stopping further down. As the train was approaching, I did walk about 40 feet further down. To my surprise the train went about another 150 feet further down!

Perhaps if the GO stafff standing on the platform were more actively directing pedestrians, rather than simply idly standing at the end of the platform, they could load faster. Though we arrived on-time at Union (was the 7 pm train ... I was quite disgusted by how the game was going, and didn't feel like waiting a whole hour for an eastbound train).