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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Since Metrolinx outright owns the corridors it intends to run RER service on, can't it simply say we run EMUs and our tracks are commuter only?

Not sure how CN or CP would react.. VIA would be fine with it...

Ahhh FRA-compliant trains are hideous. Could someone explain the reasons behind it, the ramifications, and is it outdated? How does Europe operate? Their freight trains are just as bulky, but electric.

Yeah the FRA rules are really messed. It leaves us with this hideous trains as our only options while in Europe and Asia, they have all types of sleek trains. Compare the trains Bombardier produces for Europe compared to the ones for North America, there's no comparison.
 
I doubt Metrolinx will be allowed to use the Stadler KISS here.
Given a ten year transition... it is mere details.

As Metrolinx now owns all the rail for GO RER; Let's assume a track is theoretically isolated/segregated as much as possible from other rail vehicles except for Metrolinx operated EMUs; would this be enough to gain an exception? It is as if certain trackage is permanently removed from the Canadian rail network and reassigned permanently to grade separated surface subway use. Traditional rule cease to apply. Certain tracks could, in theory be recategorized/rezoned to allow subway type EMUs, and a few exceptions made where crossovers occur by necessity with other train types (e.g. crossover to UPX spur).

Didn't Ottawa get an exception for their O-Train more than ten years ago? These types of trains, light rail are not allowed to operate on rail used by freight trains which run at nighttime on this Canadian light rail rapid transit route. If Ottawa can apply for and successfully get exceptions like that, I do not see why Transport Canada can't give Metrolinx a list of requirements before they approve of an exception once sufficiemt resignalling, failsafes, segregation, and other requested requirements were properly met.

Freight trains are now essentially banished from the majority of fully Metrolinx owned trackage in Georgetown corridor south of Bramalea, and if necessary,Metrolinx can ban classic GO trains and freight trains from SmartTrack rail now. Metrolinx now owns the rail corridors and in theory, one pair of track in these rail corridors can be mostly segregated from the intercity/interregional rail network, with the sole exception of a few sections/crossovers, especially within in the USRC. For emergency/rare freight routing, not all tracks need to be allowed for that. Also, didn't you know that part of a heavy rail corridor became the Scarborough RT corridor! And Waterloo's ION LRT uses a rail corridor with pre-existing railroad metal formerly used by heavy rail. See, land for FRA-controlled heavy rail is reassignable to non-FRA-controlled non-heavy-rail use. Even in the USA, the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) has granted waivers for limited exceptions that permitted non-FRA trains on FRA rail, but with us being in Canada and having spent far more money than most U.S. cities in expanding rail corridors, with enough track to be able to be segregated from FRA-administered corridor. The FRA trains can use different track instead.

Then over time, given a proven safety record, Transport Canada can approve interspersal of an appropriately selected UPX EMU trains with GO RER EMU trains, and provide more flexibility of dynamic rail asssignment as corridor sharing intensifies. Classic bilevels would have their own separate rail in the Georgetown corridor, there is already room for VIA/classicGO to run on a separate segregated set of two rails than UPX/RER light EMUs. Though, a solution would be needed for Unionville-to-Stoufville but one possibility is to force people to transfer between the RER train and the old bilevels at Unionville, so that the 12 car bilevels is permanently never run on rail used by Stadler EMUs (except deadheads at night). Some creative solutions are possible, by precedent.

Full ownership is achieved of Metrolinx GO RER track and corridorspace. All land for SmartTrack is now owned by Metrolinx, will have complete grade separation and protective fencing for the SmartTrack routing, so waivers may be feasible/possible with it being 99%+ segregatable and 99%+ unconnected to the rest of rail network. Literally kind of rezoned into unconnected non-heavy-rail land not connected to the rest of the rail network, severing connection to Transport Canada juridisction when it is no longer a heavy rail corridor land for that specific track, almost becoming Metrolinx non-FRA "private property" that they could almost run a tiny kitschy tourist amusement train over if that is what Ontario wished. Two tracks at Union can be permanently reassigned to non-FRA vehicles with GO trains made completely unable to access these berths, in theory. It is only the "1%" (a few high security failsafe rail crossovers) that has the potential Transport Canada contention, waiver needed... Even TTC subway has connections to the rail network that VIA and freight goes over, for the purpose of a towing to faraway yards. An exception would obviously have been needed to permit that spur, when it was built, too.

With full Metrolinx land ownership of SmartTrack land and near-complete physical separation, Metrolinx now has the flexibility to severe certain segments of their GO network completely from the North American railroad network, making certain tracks completely independent of FRA, with no surface crossings with any vehicle of any kind (eliminating need to worry about FRA surface crossing legislation) -- and permanently never shared with FRA vehicles (except waivered for transit, like nighttime deadheading for maintenance) -- thanks to the incredible Georgetown corridor work, 99% of the SmartTrack route is now apparently essentially permanently severable from the interregional heavy rail network, and thus disconnected from FRA requirement, in theory. The remaining 1% (crossovers to heavy rail track) is the problem, and will be the major point of contention to fight over, but this isn't precedentless. It will definitely be the biggest waiver ever in Canada, but there is plenty of precedent. We can lump the future purchase of UPX EMUs with SmartTrack EMUs (e.g. Stadler KISS) and just treat both of them as glorified municipal-league subway or light rail vehicles nearly completely severed from the classic rail network running on separate parallel rail (that the Georgetown corridor megaproject made possible).

Just permanently disconnect SmartTrack trackage from the rail network, and rezone the land as a subway. Use our own municipal or provincial rules for it. This is already now possible with 99% of the SmartTrack route, after all the current funded corridor megaprojects including the new Stoufville track.

For the 1% (crossovers), Transport Canada, as well as FRA, both DO have a waiver process. In this case, we do have many years to fight over it...
 
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Stadler is getting an order for DMUs in Texas. They already have some there now and elsewhere.

There is some movement in the US to use Europe equipment and not the full FRA requirement.

Metrolinx needs to be talking to Ottawa about changing FRA requirement on many fronts, especially where no freight trains will be operating during GO hours of operations.

Where GO operate with CN & CP, there needs to be 4 tracks with 2 being solely used by GO and having a waver to use Europe Equipment.

Time to get into the 22th century thinking, not 1900's.

The big different between NA & Europe for freight trains, NA trains are 3-6 times longer in length as well weight. Freight cars have single axles while we have duel, but are moving to duel now. Couplers are another issues for Europe.
 
A big problem is getting people to the ends of GO's proposed electric network. None of the terminal stations are anywhere near ideal.

While I understand it, I still hate how Bramalea is to be the initial end of GO's RER network. Nobody lives there, and likely never will as it's an industrial area near a waste incinerator and under a Pearson flight path. Just about everyone is going to get there by car or by bus (some might walk from the rental towers on Bramalea Road or houses in the southern sections of the A-Section and D-Section, but few), and it isn't going to be pretty. Steeles Avenue is a mess of 18-wheelers, among other traffic, 7 days a week. A 7-8 minute rail ride from Downtown Brampton, a natural hub and intensification area might be a 20-30 minute bus ride.

Unionville isn't that much better, but at least the Downtown Markham development will bring people living close to the station. Oshawa is in a horrible location for a transit-friendly regional rail line (as a parking lot, and a parking lot only, it works). At least Burlington isn't a bad terminus, but the Hamilton connection is still crucial.
 
Answered my own question. Great read. Why is an outdated American agency dictating federal rail policy in Canada?

https://bikeeastbay.org/rail/fra.html

You realize that the article is 8 years out of date and that there have been quite a few changes to regulations on both sides of the border, right?

And frankly, I think you guys are putting way too much weight into what is ostensibly clip-art dropped into a document. GO and Metrolinx are no where close to figuring out exactly what form any new equipment will take, especially considering that they will be receiving more BiLevels well into 2017.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
A big problem is getting people to the ends of GO's proposed electric network. None of the terminal stations are anywhere near ideal.

While I understand it, I still hate how Bramalea is to be the initial end of GO's RER network. Nobody lives there, and likely never will as it's an industrial area near a waste incinerator and under a Pearson flight path. Just about everyone is going to get there by car or by bus (some might walk from the rental towers on Bramalea Road or houses in the southern sections of the A-Section and D-Section, but few), and it isn't going to be pretty. Steeles Avenue is a mess of 18-wheelers, among other traffic, 7 days a week. A 7-8 minute rail ride from Downtown Brampton, a natural hub and intensification area might be a 20-30 minute bus ride.

Unionville isn't that much better, but at least the Downtown Markham development will bring people living close to the station. Oshawa is in a horrible location for a transit-friendly regional rail line (as a parking lot, and a parking lot only, it works). At least Burlington isn't a bad terminus, but the Hamilton connection is still crucial.

I agree that most of the terminus points aren't ideal. The terminus points that I'd like to see are:

Lakeshore West: Confederation
Lakeshore East: Courtice or Bowmanville (via downtown Oshawa)
Kitchener: Mount Pleasant
Stouffville: Mount Joy

Terminating in the middle of an urban centre may make sense from a hub perspective, but it doesn't from a rail operations perspective. Going 1 station past the centre allows for much more room when it comes to storing vehicles and changing directions. This is especially true in places like downtown Brampton or Oshawa.

I can certainly understand why Metrolinx has to end the RER lines where they are though. I think we'll see separate projects announced that will upgrade and/or add tracks to make RER extensions feasible. Adding those projects into the general RER package would increase the cost substantially.
 
I agree that most of the terminus points aren't ideal. The terminus points that I'd like to see are:

Lakeshore West: Confederation
Lakeshore East: Courtice or Bowmanville (via downtown Oshawa)
Kitchener: Mount Pleasant
Stouffville: Mount Joy

Terminating in the middle of an urban centre may make sense from a hub perspective, but it doesn't from a rail operations perspective. Going 1 station past the centre allows for much more room when it comes to storing vehicles and changing directions. This is especially true in places like downtown Brampton or Oshawa.

Makes complete sense. Going one station further is the logical point for the yards, as well as the parking facilities for commuters coming from farther afield.
 
Makes complete sense. Going one station further is the logical point for the yards, as well as the parking facilities for commuters coming from farther afield.

Exactly. The Courtice Station in particular could be very interesting. It'd be right off the 401, and would serve drivers (as well as GO buses) from Bowmanville, Port Hope, and Peterborough.

I think once the RER planning work is further along we'll start to see announcements about specific RER extensions that are bundled in with massive track improvements. Brampton's work will probably be the most extensive. I hate to sound like politics makes good planning (because it doesn't), but I can definitely see the political motivation in getting as much work done as you can on existing Metrolinx lines as quickly as possible, and then announcing individual extension projects come the next election. "We're starting construction on Phase I of the RER program to Bramalea, and today we're announcing a huge investment in Phase II, which will bring RER service to Mount Pleasant through downtown Brampton." Makes for a pretty appealing political maneuver (for the party doing the proposing, that is).
 
A big problem is getting people to the ends of GO's proposed electric network. None of the terminal stations are anywhere near ideal.

While I understand it, I still hate how Bramalea is to be the initial end of GO's RER network. Nobody lives there, and likely never will as it's an industrial area near a waste incinerator and under a Pearson flight path. Just about everyone is going to get there by car or by bus (some might walk from the rental towers on Bramalea Road or houses in the southern sections of the A-Section and D-Section, but few), and it isn't going to be pretty. Steeles Avenue is a mess of 18-wheelers, among other traffic, 7 days a week. A 7-8 minute rail ride from Downtown Brampton, a natural hub and intensification area might be a 20-30 minute bus ride.

Unionville isn't that much better, but at least the Downtown Markham development will bring people living close to the station. Oshawa is in a horrible location for a transit-friendly regional rail line (as a parking lot, and a parking lot only, it works). At least Burlington isn't a bad terminus, but the Hamilton connection is still crucial.

Not disagreeing with you, but I'd think at most RER stops the majority of the people would be getting their by some form of bus or getting a ride (or Uber), right?

I mean, I could see some RER stops like Unionville (and obviously the downtown stops) having some walk-in traffic if they're developed with high density both residential and commercial (jobs). However, I'd still expect the majority of people going to RER parking, getting dropped off by someone else driving, or taking some connecting local bus/LRT/subway to get there.

Hopefully with bus loops at the stations local transit will run frequent buses into the RER stations and fares will be integrated and easy with Presto. How's the current situation? Is it easy to for example take Mississauga transit to Port Credit, then transfer to GO Lakeshore downtown? What about other GO stations with less frequent service?
 
A big problem is getting people to the ends of GO's proposed electric network. None of the terminal stations are anywhere near ideal.

While I understand it, I still hate how Bramalea is to be the initial end of GO's RER network. Nobody lives there, and likely never will as it's an industrial area near a waste incinerator and under a Pearson flight path. Just about everyone is going to get there by car or by bus (some might walk from the rental towers on Bramalea Road or houses in the southern sections of the A-Section and D-Section, but few), and it isn't going to be pretty. Steeles Avenue is a mess of 18-wheelers, among other traffic, 7 days a week. A 7-8 minute rail ride from Downtown Brampton, a natural hub and intensification area might be a 20-30 minute bus ride.

Unionville isn't that much better, but at least the Downtown Markham development will bring people living close to the station. Oshawa is in a horrible location for a transit-friendly regional rail line (as a parking lot, and a parking lot only, it works). At least Burlington isn't a bad terminus, but the Hamilton connection is still crucial.

I agree that most of the terminus points aren't ideal. The terminus points that I'd like to see are:

Lakeshore West: Confederation
Lakeshore East: Courtice or Bowmanville (via downtown Oshawa)
Kitchener: Mount Pleasant
Stouffville: Mount Joy

Terminating in the middle of an urban centre may make sense from a hub perspective, but it doesn't from a rail operations perspective. Going 1 station past the centre allows for much more room when it comes to storing vehicles and changing directions. This is especially true in places like downtown Brampton or Oshawa.

I can certainly understand why Metrolinx has to end the RER lines where they are though. I think we'll see separate projects announced that will upgrade and/or add tracks to make RER extensions feasible. Adding those projects into the general RER package would increase the cost substantially.

Makes complete sense. Going one station further is the logical point for the yards, as well as the parking facilities for commuters coming from farther afield.

Exactly. The Courtice Station in particular could be very interesting. It'd be right off the 401, and would serve drivers (as well as GO buses) from Bowmanville, Port Hope, and Peterborough.

I think once the RER planning work is further along we'll start to see announcements about specific RER extensions that are bundled in with massive track improvements. Brampton's work will probably be the most extensive. I hate to sound like politics makes good planning (because it doesn't), but I can definitely see the political motivation in getting as much work done as you can on existing Metrolinx lines as quickly as possible, and then announcing individual extension projects come the next election. "We're starting construction on Phase I of the RER program to Bramalea, and today we're announcing a huge investment in Phase II, which will bring RER service to Mount Pleasant through downtown Brampton." Makes for a pretty appealing political maneuver (for the party doing the proposing, that is).

I completely agree. Especially the Barrie line, I don't like that it stops at Aurora. For me, I would have had this.

Lakeshore West: James North (CP will fight on Hunter Street, trust me on this.)
Lakeshore East: I agree with Gweed, Courtice or Bowmanville
Barrie: Bradford (How will they get all day service to Barrie?)
Stouffville: Stouffville.
Kitchener: Guelph or Kitchener* see below.

But here's the thing. The shorter they stop the trains, the easier it is to turn the trains around and maintain frequency. I think that was a part of this. Also maybe they should consider skipper Georgetown and Acton station during off peak hours. I know, I know, bad optics but they refused to set up local transit with Milton, Burlington and Oakville have it. Plus it would make all day service to Kitchener more feasible by shaving 25 minutes off they run time. Something like Kitchener --> Guelph --> distance -- Mount Pleasant, and so on.
 
So who goofed?

Vehicles will not be leaving the Union Station GO Bus Terminal on Wednesday evening due to an unplanned City of Toronto road closure just south of the terminal for a movie shoot.

The Star says trips were changed on the fly. Some that were to arrive/depart Union were moved all the way up to York Mills. I believe the Hamilton Express was cancelled outright.

Metrolinx claims the city sent out bad information about the location of the shoot. Any way to verify that? This also highlights the need to move that terminal somewhere that doesn't have only one way in and out.
 
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So who goofed?



The Star says trips were changed on the fly. Some that were to arrive/depart Union were moved all the way up to York Mills. I believe the Hamilton Express was cancelled outright.

Metrolinx claims the city sent out bad information about the location of the shoot. Any way to verify that? This also highlights the need to move that terminal somewhere that doesn't have only one way in and out.

Good thing I didn't need to take the GO bus last night or I'd be really pissed. How the hell do you not know this in advance so at least better planning can be made? Things in this city really make you shake your head sometimes.
 
I completely agree. Especially the Barrie line, I don't like that it stops at Aurora. For me, I would have had this.

Lakeshore West: James North (CP will fight on Hunter Street, trust me on this.)
Lakeshore East: I agree with Gweed, Courtice or Bowmanville
Barrie: Bradford (How will they get all day service to Barrie?)
Stouffville: Stouffville.
Kitchener: Guelph or Kitchener* see below.

But here's the thing. The shorter they stop the trains, the easier it is to turn the trains around and maintain frequency. I think that was a part of this. Also maybe they should consider skipper Georgetown and Acton station during off peak hours. I know, I know, bad optics but they refused to set up local transit with Milton, Burlington and Oakville have it. Plus it would make all day service to Kitchener more feasible by shaving 25 minutes off they run time. Something like Kitchener --> Guelph --> distance -- Mount Pleasant, and so on.

I would be more inclined to run service local from Kitchener, and then once it hits Brampton run express (or semi-express) into Union. Have the other GO RER line run local to Mount Pleasant from Union. If someone from Kitchener is bound for a spot east of Brampton other than Union, they can transfer onto the other GO RER line that's making all station stops. For most people though, Union would likely be their destination, so it wouldn't make sense to make all station stops in between.

The same would hold true for other lines that feature exurban trains. Niagara Falls for example would run local to either Aldershot or Oakville, and then express into Union from there. Barrie would run local to Newmarket, and then express in from there.
 

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