GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[dunkalunk]

Copied and pasted from one of my posts at SSP Forum: Waterloo Region

on GO stop location
While the proposed site for the GO station is a bit far from King, I would have to say the location makes sense for now. I would hate to see GO service and improved VIA being kept away from downtown Kitchener due to lack of a facility.

My only real concern for the GO stop would be the relatively short lifespan of the platform (due to Victoria Terminal, explained later). My suggestion is that instead of pouring a concrete slab, that a temporary modular platform be built to allow for easy deconstruction (Think semi-permanent temporary stage).

I also have no real problems with the closure of Ahrens in order to accommodate extended GO trains. In the event of high speed rail, Ahrens would require closure regardless. And in the case that HSR doesn't happen, grade separation just makes sense for safety reasons.

In the interim, GRT should be running shuttles between the train station and Charles terminal. They should have been doing this a long time ago.

more on Victoria Terminal
At this rate, we would likely be getting GO service about 4-5 years before LRT. A new intermodal rail/bus/LRT facility would likely be built between King and Weber to allow interconnectivity of all transit modes. Grade separations at King and Weber would definitely be requirements. While this facility and grade separations are being constructed it would be best to keep this area free of commuter passenger traffic.

Once the station is finished being built, rail traffic could be moved inside the new building. There is room for a 500m long platform, enough room for even a TGV style service. The area between Weber and Margaret could then be gentrified.

Google maps are outdated. You cannot enter Ahrens street south of Vitoria from any points north. This road has a one way exit onto Victoria. Map of the Area Ahrens is in no way an arterial.

And for Breslau:

Original Layover site:

Map of both sites:
link

This distance probably seems negligible to most, but the original proposed site has much better connectivity.

 

[lordmandeep]

Wait...

Whats the info on the stations before KW???


I assume there will be an Acton Station and one or two Guelph Stations...

So what new stations would there be after Georgetown???

 

[Dan416]

Acton had a GO station before, so it makes sense to reinstate it there. I'm looking at the map and there's a place called Rockwood which could conceivalby get service if they'll be adding more subdivisions there. I agree a couple stations in Guelph make sense, followed by Breslau and Kitchener.

 

[lordmandeep]

and these trains would run along the regular stations (Brampton, Bramalea) and such?

The trains are already full at Rush hour.

I am assuming there would be a lot of extra service on the original corridor and only rush hour service to those parts.

Do not forget the Bolton train that may come.

 

[RedRocket191]

and these trains would run along the regular stations (Brampton, Bramalea) and such?

The trains are already full at Rush hour.

I am assuming there would be a lot of extra service on the original corridor and only rush hour service to those parts.

Do not forget the Bolton train that may come.

The GO 2020 plan calls for extensive use of express-local pairs of trains like you see on the lakeshore line today.

 

[lordmandeep]

That is excellent ^^^^


I love to see more express trains...



SO I would assume the express trains would mostly start at Brampton/Bramalea or all the way from Georgetown??

 

[nfitz]

Acton had a GO station before, so it makes sense to reinstate it there. I'm looking at the map and there's a place called Rockwood which could conceivalby get service if they'll be adding more subdivisions there. I agree a couple stations in Guelph make sense, followed by Breslau and Kitchener.

I thought I'd seen figures somewhere showing station locations ... two in Acton - can't remember the others ... must be a website somewhere.

Hmm - who on earth does an EA these days without a website? Here's a blog entry: http://cdlu.net/entries/20080924.shtml - lists potential stations as:

Kitchener downtown VIA station
Layover facility and station at Breslau, just east of Kitchener
Guelph former Lafarge property (park-and-ride), at the Hanlon
Guelph downtown VIA station
Guelph Watson Road
Acton downtown
Acton East (Hide House)

Hate to think how long a ride that would be from Kitchener ...

 

[RedRocket191]

That is excellent ^^^^


I love to see more express trains...



SO I would assume the express trains would mostly start at Brampton/Bramalea or all the way from Georgetown??

Right now they have train 208 making all stops to Bramalea then express to Union. Train 270 leaves Bramalea 10 minutes later making all stops to Union. Bramalea is the logical divsion point in my opinion because it's the only station to have three tracks, it has the highest ridership and is the most important station on the line from a connections point of view. I would suspect this setup would be preserved.

I thought I'd seen figures somewhere showing station locations ... two in Acton - can't remember the others ... must be a website somewhere.

I remember seeing the same thing, but there was one historic station in Acton near the Old Hide House site.

 

[ShonTron]

I remember seeing the same thing, but there was one historic station in Acton near the Old Hide House site.

Yep, it was there. It must have been a really bare-bones arrangement because there's almost nothing to indicate a station was there. I think it was just a platform, a few shelters and perhaps a trailer for ticket sales. Only one round trip went to Guelph too.

It was the previous CN station location as well, and I think there was passenger service until the 1970s there.

 

[RedRocket191]

I did the whole highway 7 drive this past weekend from Guelph to Brampton (coming back from London), and I would add Rockwood to the list. It's not too too big of a community but there appears to be some newish development at the south end of town.

 

[CDL.TO]

I would add Rockwood to the list. It's not too too big of a community but there appears to be some newish development at the south end of town.

I don't think Rockwood merits a stop. It's just a village (pop. 2,823) and likely has almost no Toronto-bound commuters. Acton is very close; remember that on these country highways travel times are very short. Google estimates the driving time to Acton at only 7 minutes.

 

[TOareaFan]

Right now they have train 208 making all stops to Bramalea then express to Union. Train 270 leaves Bramalea 10 minutes later making all stops to Union. Bramalea is the logical divsion point in my opinion because it's the only station to have three tracks, it has the highest ridership and is the most important station on the line from a connections point of view. I would suspect this setup would be preserved.

The work going on right now is extending the three tracks to Brampton and Mt. Pleasant so that advantage to Bramalea will disappear.

That advantage, and the resultant extra train service, plays a big part in it having the largest ridership (people who live closer to Brampton and Mt. Pleasant actually drive to Bramalea to ensure being able to train home or just drive downtown because of the limited service to their stations).

Brampton station is far more important for connections....being attached to the Brampton bus terminal it connects naturally to more BT bus routes, GO bus routes and VIA rail.

After this summer (when the work on Brampton and Mt. Pleasant will be done) the only advantage that Bramlea will have over those two will be the massive parking lot that they have....Brampton is limited (although better transit connections, availibility of nearby lots {albeit at slight cost} and actually having a population of people who can walk to the station mitigate that a bit. I think there is room at Mt. Pleasant to expand their lot or build new lots.

Mt. Pleasant has the advantage of being adjacent to the new train storage facility they are building.....I would expect that the current express train from Bramalea will start at Mt. Pleasant make all stops in Brampton (ie. Brampton and Bramalea) and then run express to Union.....but who knows!

 

[RedRocket191]

It will still have the 407 buses. Those are the connections I was talking about.

 

[ShonTron]

GO may not build the train storage facility at Mount Pleasant partly because of the Kitchener extension - trains would be stored at Georgetown and somewhere near Kitchener. They are also planning on double tracking the Credit River bridge, which I did not expect.

 

[jamesbow]

What I'm seeing here suggests that a Kitchener train during peak hours would operate as follows:

Kitchener -> Breslau -> Hanlon -> Guelph -> Watson -> Acton -> Georgetown -> Mount Pleasant (transfer at Mount Pleasant to local service) -> Union

VIA service operates as follows:

Kitchener -> Guelph -> Georgetown -> Brampton -> Union.

So, nine stops for GO versus five stops for VIA, and VIA's current running time is roughly 90 minutes between Kitchener and Union. However, if I recall correctly, the province and the feds have already announced funding to upgrade the upper main line tracks through to Kitchener, eliminating the "dark zone" where VIA trains currently operate without signals. It has been said that this could cut as much as 30 minutes off of VIA Rail service to Toronto.

So, the Kitchener-Union GO run might not be so bad, and in any event, its arrangement with VIA would be similar to that seen at Aldershot, where GO Trains already take an hour to get to Union, and VIA offers faster, but pricier, express service. Sounds fair to me.

...James