GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Bordercollie]

I'm honestly surprised they haven't ever done it yet. Even in the tight-headway 2019 timetable, the first eastbound train arrived at Union at 07:00, which gives it plenty of time to return westbound to Milton in time to start the 08:27 eastbound departure. Once peak service returns to pre-pandemic level, running one or two counter-peak trains could be a good way to help some Route 21 passengers avoid traffic congestion while also using train equipment more efficiently. At the moment it's not really an issue, since there's still equipment to spare.

Notes:
- In practice the counter-peak trains aren't necessarily the same physical trains as the peak direction trains. The peak direction trains may actually run through to another line while the counter-peak Milton trains arrive run from another line.
- Currently only Kipling, Erindale and Streetsville have more than one platform, so counter-peak trains would only be able to stop there, plus Milton. But that still seems fairly useful. Currently the triple-track segment ends about 400m west of Cooksville station. Extending it eastward through the station would be a nice way to add that station to counter-peak services while also reducing its impacts on CP.
- All of the stations have room for additional tracks, as I illustrated in an earlierpost in this thread.

Does CP have the capacity?

 

[crs1026]

I'm honestly surprised they haven't ever done it yet. Even in the tight-headway 2019 timetable, the first eastbound train arrived at Union at 07:00, which gives it plenty of time to return westbound to Milton in time to start the 08:27 eastbound departure. Once peak service returns to pre-pandemic level, running one or two counter-peak trains could be a good way to help some Route 21 passengers avoid traffic congestion while also using train equipment more efficiently. At the moment it's not really an issue, since there's still equipment to spare.

Even with equipment to spare, Running the service with 8 trainsets instead of ten frees up a lot of long term capital investment, sufficient to pay for whatever track enhancements CP requires, and lowers operating costs. I’m surprised that hasn’t happened - even just deadheading empty trains back for a second trip would save money. I wonder if the new operator will have more luck getting CP on board.

- Paul

Ps - don’t overlook the need for more track from Dupont down to Union.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Even with equipment to spare, Running the service with 8 trainsets instead of ten frees up a lot of long term capital investment, sufficient to pay for whatever track enhancements CP requires, and lowers operating costs. I’m surprised that hasn’t happened - even just deadheading empty trains back for a second trip would save money. I wonder if the new operator will have more luck getting CP on board.

- Paul

Ps - don’t overlook the need for more track from Dupont down to Union.

I thought CP has essentially given GO a free hand within the existing operating hours.

 

[T3G]

Does CP have the capacity?

They claim they don't, but I'm skeptical. I live within walking distance of the Galt subdivision, there are only a few scheduled trains on it every day and long periods of time without any movement at all. There is nothing so quintessentially North American as a corporation not making full use of infrastructure they own refusing to let someone else make use of it, either.

 

[robmausser]

Any chance they will implement reverse commuting runs in the future?

They said they were going to last year

All go for two-way, all-day GO train service in Milton?

Funding pledge may set wheels in motion

www.thestar.com

 

[smallspy]

Does CP have the capacity?

I thought CP has essentially given GO a free hand within the existing operating hours.

CP has given GO unfettered access in one direction only for the 3-ish hour period in the morning and 4-ish hour period in the afternoon.

A counter-peak train would be at odds to this and would lose them what little capacity remained during those periods. They were willing to allow 2-direction service on the weekends as GO was only looking to run a train hourly.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

CP has given GO unfettered access in one direction only for the 3-ish hour period in the morning and 4-ish hour period in the afternoon.

A counter-peak train would be at odds to this and would lose them what little capacity remained during those periods. They were willing to allow 2-direction service on the weekends as GO was only looking to run a train hourly.

Dan

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

 

[kalis0490]

I'm thinking GO should run hourly Kitchener - Guelph shuttle service . (long before 2dawgo) This is entirely possible with the existing track. Kitchener - Guelph have a 0% transit share despite having 30,000 people travel between the two daily (more people than kitchener - toronto travel). the train takes 2 times less time than driving. I'm sure 1000s would take this kind of service.

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm thinking GO should run hourly Kitchener - Guelph shuttle service . (long before 2dawgo) This is entirely possible with the existing track.

There is currently construction ongoing in Kitchener, Gueph and Breslau, which would be delayed by increased service. And once that construction is complete (supposedly next year but more likely 2024), there will be hourly all day service from Kitchener to Toronto.

Kitchener - Guelph have a 0% transit share despite having 30,000 people travel between the two daily (more people than kitchener - toronto travel). the train takes 2 times less time than driving. I'm sure 1000s would take this kind of service.

How can there be a 0% transit share when people already use the existing GO trains to travel between Kitchener and Guelph?

 

[Krypto98]

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

Which is currently 105 territory and in pretty bad shape

 

[kalis0490]

There is currently construction ongoing in Kitchener, Gueph and Breslau, which would be delayed by increased service. And once that construction is complete (supposedly next year but more likely 2024), there will be hourly all day service from Kitchener to Toronto.


How can there be a 0% transit share when people already use the existing GO trains to travel between Kitchener and Guelph?

What im talking about is a temp shuttle while the capabilities for 2wadgo to Toronto built.

Just because the Brampton bottleneck exists doesn't mean that Kitchener -Guelph service should be be completely dependent on that work. In the long term, there should be enough demand for 15 minutes service between the two cities.


Point 2) Ive never more than 2 people travel between Kitchener and Guelph on the trains Ive took.
2ppl/train*8 trains/per day*2 directions = 32 people. 32/30,000 = 0.106% of the total demand is on public transit - basically 0%


Waterloo made that Cambridge business case for GO to look through - the onus is on GO to actually take a look at it

 

[reaperexpress]

What im talking about is a temp shuttle while the capabilities for 2wadgo to Toronto built.

Yes I know. And I'm telling you that it's a bad idea. It was a good idea ten years ago, but now that construction has begun on AD2W infra between KW and Guelph, it makes more sense to just wait until construction is complete and we can introduce regular, dependable service.

That shuttle would not be a dependable service. It couldn't run while CN, Via or peak GO trains are using singular existing track, or when the line is shut down for construction. It really doesn't seem worthwhile to increase the cost of construction, use chronically scarce crews and delay the introduction of regular hourly service from KW to Toronto just for a few intermittent shuttle trips between Kitchener and Guelph.

Just because the Brampton bottleneck exists doesn't mean that Kitchener -Guelph service should be be completely dependent on that work.

It has nothing to do with the Brampton bottleneck. The construction for AD2W is happening in Kitchener, Breslau, Guelph, Acton and Georgetown. The expansion east of Georgetown will occur while hourly service is already running to Kitchener.

In the long term, there should be enough demand for 15 minutes service between the two cities.

There is certainly a lot of demand between Kitchener and Guelph, but how much of it can easily get to and from the current Kitchener station? It has poor transit connections, poor walking and cycling access and not very much parking. The new Central Station will have orders of magnitude better connectivity, and would thereby capture more of the demand. And guess what: as soon as that station opens, there will be regular hourly service to Guelph.

 

[kalis0490]

Yes I know. And I'm telling you that it's a bad idea. It was a good idea ten years ago, but now that construction has begun on AD2W infra between KW and Guelph, it makes more sense to just wait until construction is complete and we can introduce regular, dependable service.



That shuttle would not be a dependable service. It couldn't run while CN, Via or peak GO trains are using singular existing track, or when the line is shut down for construction. It really doesn't seem worthwhile to increase the cost of construction, use chronically scarce crews and delay the introduction of regular hourly service from KW to Toronto just for a few intermittent shuttle trips between Kitchener and Guelph.



It has nothing to do with the Brampton bottleneck. The construction for AD2W is in Kitchener, Breslau, Guelph, Acton and Georgetown. The expansion east of Georgetown will occur while hourly service is already running to Kitchener.



There is certainly a lot of demand between Kitchener and Guelph, but how much of it can easily get to and from the current Kitchener station? It has poor transit connections, poor walking and cycling access and not very much parking. The new Central Station will have orders of magnitude better connectivity, and would thereby capture more of the demand. And guess what: as soon as that station opens, there will be regular hourly service to Guelph.

It sucks that Waterloo does not have enough money for the New Station and upper levels of Government haven't funded the difference. While York Region somehow always has money for bad projects (Bloomington, Cornell Station).


Additionally Guelph wants to build a bus station at the West End Library by 2030, Could this is be a good spot for an infill rail station?

Does anyone have an idea how serious the Cambridge Go idea is as this point? I don't think GO has acknowledged its existence.

 

[reaperexpress]

It sucks that Waterloo does not have enough money for the New Station and upper levels of Government haven't funded the difference. While York Region somehow always has money for bad projects (Bloomington, Cornell Station).

The new station has 43 million dollars of provincial funding and construction was scheduled to start this month ( not sure if it actually has or not). The June 2021 project update stated that the station was expected to open in summer 2023, but given the delays in starting construction, it seems more likely that it will open in 2024. The funding Waterloo is seeking is for the station building and adjacent plaza, which will be omitted from the current construction.

Additionally Guelph wants to build a bus station at the West End Library by 2030, Could this is be a good spot for an infill rail station?

At a quick glance, that does seem to be a good potential location for a rail station which could serve as Guelph's park-and-ride, while also serving as a west-end bus terminal. It seems prudent to position the new bus terminal such that it could provide a convenient connection to a potential future rail station.

It would also be cool to have a "Guelph West" station, since "Guelph Central" implies the existance of other stations in Guelph. (Yes I realize that "Guelph West" is not consistent with Metrolinx's insane station naming guidelines).

 

[crs1026]

There is a proposal to use the Fergus sub to provide this kind of service.

A proposal, not a plan.

This past summer, CN imposed some tough restrictions on its own use of the Guelph & Galt. Suffice it to say, no passenger train will be using that line at more than 10 mph without a great deal of upgrading. Even if funding were available, It would likely take until 2025 or beyond to fix the underlying problem.

- Paul