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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Lakeshore still doesn't have express trains. That alone is probably keeping a lot of customers off the trains. Why take a slower local train when traffic is still generally well below pre-pandemic levels and parking downtown is presumably in great abundance?
 
innsertnamehere said:
Lakeshore still doesn't have express trains. That alone is probably keeping a lot of customers off the trains. Why take a slower local train when traffic is still generally well below pre-pandemic levels and parking downtown is presumably in great abundance?
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That, and the continued suspension of Route 16 makes me unwilling to take GO to Hamilton anytime soon.
 
It's not a perfect solution, but the weekend Niagara Falls excursion trains are now stopping at Aldershot as well as Burlington. Using those to get to Hamilton will shave off a decent amount of time when compared to the all-stops trains, although certainly not a quick or convenient as the 16 service.

Dan
 
Interesting observation I’ve made scanning the new timetable. There is NO service to York University GO Station. There wasn’t any during the pandemic and none at all now.

seems to me like Metrolinx is going to quietly let the station die. Perhaps demolish the concrete overnight without any notice. Problem is that don’t have the political will to officially close the station as York admin and students would get upset.
 
Garuda said:
Interesting observation I’ve made scanning the new timetable. There is NO service to York University GO Station. There wasn’t any during the pandemic and none at all now.

seems to me like Metrolinx is going to quietly let the station die. Perhaps demolish the concrete overnight without any notice. Problem is that don’t have the political will to officially close the station as York admin and students would get upset.
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Most students taking GO used buses anyway. They were already screwed by the change to Highway 407 terminal, and then by the end of the discounted TTC-GO transfer. I don't see why the York University Station platform is needed anymore if nobody could figure out the impact on bus commuters.
 
I took the train from Bradford to the York University GO station the winter after the Vaughan extension opened. Using the York U shuttle bus was much more convenient than getting off the train at Downsview Park and then taking the subway north two stops. Without a discount for people taking GO and TTC in a single trip, this is a much worse outcome for people who relied on this station. At the very least, if they're quietly killing this station, it should open the way for a Concord GO station to connect with VIVA.
 
Krypto98 said:
I just looked at the go transit schedule today and the travel time between kitchener and Guelph is 21 minutes, down 3 minutes from 24.
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E•MO•TION said:
Down from the previous time savings?
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The current schedule is 1 minute faster between Kitchener and Guelph than the pre-Covid schedule. The remainder of the travel time savings were introduced in September 2019. There are still several more minutes which will be saved as part of the ongoing upgrade project, primarily around Guelph and Georgetown stations.

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north-of-anything said:
I took the train from Bradford to the York University GO station the winter after the Vaughan extension opened. Using the York U shuttle bus was much more convenient than getting off the train at Downsview Park and then taking the subway north two stops. Without a discount for people taking GO and TTC in a single trip, this is a much worse outcome for people who relied on this station. At the very least, if they're quietly killing this station, it should open the way for a Concord GO station to connect with VIVA.
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A big part of the reason that it's slower to go via Downsview Park is that the train stops at York U station in the first place. If the train skipped York U, it would get to Downsview Park 2 minutes earlier, which would make Downsview Park + Subway only 3 minutes slower than York U station + shuttle bus (calculation here). It makes no sense to delay ~2000 passengers per train by 2 minutes in order to save 3 minutes for the ~10 people going to York U.

The only real issue here is the lack of fare integration. Money is a poor argument for keeping the station, because doing so includes numerous unnecessary costs
- operating a fully-subsidized bus shuttle to the campus
- maintaining the platform and walkways (snow clearance etc)
- fuel to accelerate full 10 or 12-car double-decker trains
- lower ridership (revenue) due to a 2-minute longer ride
- additional time required from the train staff
etc.

Instead of wasting money on these pointless items, I'd rather York U and GO put that money toward fare discounts.
 
Allandale25 said:
^ Just out of curiosity, why is the VIA time slightly longer than GO? I would have thought that because VIA trains are shorter they could match the acceleration of GO? @crs1026 @smallspy @Urban Sky
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I know of no technical reason. My theory would be, two organizations using different planning assumptions (dwell, padding, etc) and their own past operational data. As through trains, for instance, VIA may want to be a bit more conservative about when a wb train will actually depart Kitchener, where GO is portraying an arrival time (granted, one with its own contingency assumptions built in).

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I know of no technical reason. My theory would be, two organizations using different planning assumptions (dwell, padding, etc) and their own past operational data. As through trains, for instance, VIA may want to be a bit more conservative about when a wb train will actually depart Kitchener, where GO is portraying an arrival time (granted, one with its own contingency assumptions built in).

- Paul
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With only a couple of exceptions, VIA schedules a 3 minute dwell time at each station and GO uses a 45 second-to-1 minute dwell. Generally, the times on the schedules are the departure time, except for the destination station which is the scheduled arrival. That's why there can sometimes be a large discrepancy in the "travel time" between two stations. (Physical plant layout can sometimes also account for that - if a train is scheduled to meet an opposing train in a siding, for instance.)

As well, VIA does build a larger contingency time into their schedules. While the trip time may only be 19 minutes from Kitchener to Guelph, for instance, VIA will pad the schedule with an additional several minutes to account for any delays that may occur, or may have occurred earlier int he run. (In fairness in this situation, VIA may not have updated the schedule to take advantage of the improvements made to the corridor over the past year or so on top of that.)

In terms of actual performance metrics that they use, as far as I understand it VIA uses the standard CN Train Performance Calculator specs to calculate operations whereas GO will base their train performance on maximum acceleration up to about 80% of the line speed, and then a cruise or coast from there. Prior to a couple of years ago there was only one standard - an F59 pulling a 10-car train - but they seem to be also now using the specs of a 6-car train for some specific schedules.

Dan
 
^ Thanks Paul and Dan. The other thing I thought of when reading your replies is that because VIA doesn't have platform level loading at Guelph, they may need to bring over that ramp that is used for people in wheelchairs?
 
Allandale25 said:
^ Just out of curiosity, why is the VIA time slightly longer than GO? I would have thought that because VIA trains are shorter they could match the acceleration of GO? @crs1026 @smallspy @Urban Sky
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VIA hasn't updated their schedule in a bajillion years, so it doesn't account for the track upgrades.

VIA's dwell time is a bit longer than GO but their acceleration is a fair bit faster too, so realistically they should be able to match GO's times. On other lines VIA does tend to post better times than GO trains with comparable stopping patterns.

I only used departure times (except terminals) since GO doesn't publish scheduled arrival times and I wanted an equivalent metric between the two companies. VIA's schedules have 2 minutes sitting in Guelph so you can subtract two minutes to get the time from departure to arrival. You would also subtract a minute from GO's time to get that metric.
 
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According to Metrolinx's Marketing & Communications Quarterly Update, ridership in April 2020 was only 2.7% what it was in April 2019 (a 97.3% drop). As of July 2020, ridership was 8.5% of what it was in July 2020 - an improvement, but still over 90% loss.

Though I know GO Transit is geared towards Bay Street commuters and provincial office workers, as well as post secondary students, but it's still shocking to know that ridership went down that much. The July ridership wouldn't be affected by students either way.
 
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