Garuda
Active Member
I wonder if they'll be a overnight shutdown of some Highway 401 lanes this summer to expedite the works when traffic is low?
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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)
- Thread starter drum118
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nfitz
Superstar
Probably - there are several different bridges, with the 401 collector, express, and 407 ramps, so the 401 never need completely close.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Maybe GM/CP will need the spur over the 401 again? Although I assume there is a lot less volume moving parts. Given CN is already there maybe any part shipping would be done by them.
crs1026
Superstar
I suspect they would hold onto control of the spur for as long as there is prospective business, so if the site is being retained then yes CP won't be happy with GO being on it.
Some of the tweets from people in Durham imply that ML has indicated a preference for running straight east along CN to McLaughlin Bay, where the CP and CN lines come very close together (with only the 401 in the way!). That routing might be cheaper to construct than through the center of Oshawa, and avoids any harsh curvature. It's still possible to reach the CP alignment in time for the planned Courtice and Bowmanville stations. Still needs a bridge over/under the 401, but that might be cheaper to build.
I'm not knowledgeable on Oshawa's transit plans, but the original plan didn't really lead to a single transit hub for Oshawa. I wonder if the GO/VIA station has any value in that regard.
- Paul
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ If they continued along the CN tracks further east and then connected to CP, it would mean the Thornton and Oshawa Central Stations would be eliminated. That's unfortunate about the Central Station. It would be nice to have an Oshawa GO station closer to its downtown. The Thornton one seems a little duplicative. cc @ShaunTO
(this is the best map I could find of all of the station locations. Is there a better version out there).
From this presentation in 2017:
(this is the best map I could find of all of the station locations. Is there a better version out there).
From this presentation in 2017:
rbt
Senior Member
The Bowmanville business case does seem quite poor without adjustments of some type. It wasn't great in the document and reality seems much worse than the document:
www.durhamradionews.com
Durham MPP urges transport minister to make Bowmanville GO a priority
Yet another bump in the road, or tracks, for the Bowmanville GO extension. Durham MPP Lindsey Park says the new leaders at Metrolinx have discovered some maj
www.durhamradionews.com
robmausser
Senior Member
Yes the Oshawa Central station is one of the best parts of this Bowmanville extension, Id hate to see it go.
However I think Thorton should be eliminated and the extension/crossover should happen after the current Oshawa GO.
Lets hope Metrolinx can use the GM/CP bridge, as this would be even more cost effective than crossing at McLaughlin Bay , and retain the Oshawa central station.
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ As a further thought to all of the above, would one of the four options be DMUs/EMUs or even a radial LRT line to connect Bowmanville and Oshawa? Yes people would have to transfer possibly at Oshawa GO. I'm just wondering if they'll think out of the box for non-traditional (IE 12-coach heavy and slow trains) solutions, similar to what they appear to have done with the Ontario Line where they switched the technology from subway. cc @crs1026 @smallspy
torontocolin
Active Member
Any new train technology would require a new maintenance and storage yard, which would vastly increase the cost of the project. You'll also be significantly negatively impacting ridership if you include a transfer. And if you're going to pay for what would effectively a brand new LRT line, is Bowmanville-Oshawa by way of a rail corridor the best place to spend that money?
You could wait until you're sure the LSE is being electrified and then convert the whole line to EMUs, but that would potentially delay the project by years, and might not work out anyway if the kind of lighter-weight EMUs you're hoping to use don't make sense for the rest of the line, or if the DBFOM contract winner doesn't want to go with that tech. This really only makes sense as a GO extension or nothing.
You could wait until you're sure the LSE is being electrified and then convert the whole line to EMUs, but that would potentially delay the project by years, and might not work out anyway if the kind of lighter-weight EMUs you're hoping to use don't make sense for the rest of the line, or if the DBFOM contract winner doesn't want to go with that tech. This really only makes sense as a GO extension or nothing.
crs1026
Superstar
^A lot depends on the ridership projections, and on the ridership that is already boarding at Oshawa. My impression is that through trains are likely already desirable to Bowmanville at peak, so building to heavy rail is already required.
I do wonder if 12 car trains on 15 minute headways off peak may be a bit uneconomical..... In general, I wonder whether GO is content running so many large trains off peak along LSE/LSW..
Even so the added expense of maintaining a separate DMU fleet for this length of jitney seems greater than the added fuel of those long trains. There are lots of examples of wee feeder trains connecting to main line trunks, but Bowmanville may already generate more ridership off peak and running the LSE service right through may be cheaper, even with many empty seats.
Lastly, given that heavy rail will be needed as Clarington grows, building to a lighter footprint is likely unwise. Any bridges etc ought to be built to heavy rail spec anyways to prepare for this. That leaves less opportunity to cut the cost via LRT.
It takes as long to plan light rail as heavy rail, and if speed is of the essence, might as well just plan the heavy rail and build it.
But I must say - the prospect of a light rail line crossing Durham Region is intriguing. It might complement, bur I dont think it can replace, heavy rail to Toronto.
- Paul
I do wonder if 12 car trains on 15 minute headways off peak may be a bit uneconomical..... In general, I wonder whether GO is content running so many large trains off peak along LSE/LSW..
Even so the added expense of maintaining a separate DMU fleet for this length of jitney seems greater than the added fuel of those long trains. There are lots of examples of wee feeder trains connecting to main line trunks, but Bowmanville may already generate more ridership off peak and running the LSE service right through may be cheaper, even with many empty seats.
Lastly, given that heavy rail will be needed as Clarington grows, building to a lighter footprint is likely unwise. Any bridges etc ought to be built to heavy rail spec anyways to prepare for this. That leaves less opportunity to cut the cost via LRT.
It takes as long to plan light rail as heavy rail, and if speed is of the essence, might as well just plan the heavy rail and build it.
But I must say - the prospect of a light rail line crossing Durham Region is intriguing. It might complement, bur I dont think it can replace, heavy rail to Toronto.
- Paul
Fritter
Active Member
I've always wondered when light rail might be worthwhile on Simcoe St in Oshawa as a north/south transit option.
denfromoakvillemilton
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They should build Thornton and Grandview, imo. right now, you have to transfer busses to get to the go station in some parts.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Not sure if it's been mentioned or not here, but Burlington Transit looks set to *finally* start using the new southern bus terminal at Burlington GO in September. Only, what, 10 years after construction began?
https://www.burlingtontransit.ca/en...Transit---2019-Sept-Changes-Booklet-Final.pdf (warning, PDF)
https://www.burlingtontransit.ca/en...Transit---2019-Sept-Changes-Booklet-Final.pdf (warning, PDF)
ShonTron
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Those look like reasonable improvements, with a somewhat more simplified route structure. Maybe Burlington Transit was waiting for the route restructuring to return to the south loop.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The new mayor is a total NIMBY when it comes to development but seems to be quite supportive of transit. There is a lot of talk of trying to "pull a Brampton" in Burlington, with a significant amount of new funding and capital investment forecasted over the next few years in order to try and boost ridership.
That's my understanding though, yes. They knew they were restructuring soon so they left it unused for a while. As far as I know the terminal has been fully completed for well over a year, Burlington Transit just hasn't been using it.