GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[robmausser]

But the speed is atrocious. The schedule allows 24 minutes between Kitchener and Guelph (avg. speed ~ 55 km/h). Guelph to Acton is 17 minutes (avg. speed ~ 75 km/h). The real crime is the slowness through Silver Junction and Georgetown GO still being a thing, even after all the work there. Where tf is that mainline platform?!

There seems to be a real problem with this.

Track owned by CN/CP = Mainline track thats quick but you have the restrictions of freight slowing down VIA/GO

Track owned by VIA/Metrolinx = crappy slow single track thats getting no proper funding.

The end result is the same.

 

[Allandale25]

I believe they are adding a single track to the CP corridor.

They also have to build the bridge over the 401.

Correct.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

I believe they are adding a single track to the CP corridor.

They also have to build the bridge over the 401.

Since they are adding a single track, I hope that this means that future service increases to Bowmanville can easily be achieved, as Metrolinx will be the track owner. A single track with passing tracks could support hourly service, easily.

 

[reaperexpress]

But the speed is atrocious. The schedule allows 24 minutes between Kitchener and Guelph (avg. speed ~ 55 km/h). Guelph to Acton is 17 minutes (avg. speed ~ 75 km/h).

Based on my back-of-the-envelope calculation, increasing the ~1.4 mile Guelph slow zone from 10 mph to 30 mph should reduce the travel time by about 5 minutes, which would produce a scheduled travel time of 19 minutes (avg speed = 69 km/h) once the current construction is wrapped up. Hopefully subsequent upgrades will increase the speed limit from 70 mph (112 km/h) to at least 90 mph (145 km/h) to enable further time savings.

There seems to be a real problem with this.

Track owned by CN/CP = Mainline track thats quick but you have the restrictions of freight slowing down VIA/GO

Track owned by VIA/Metrolinx = crappy slow single track thats getting no proper funding.

The end result is the same.

Not at all. The issues with the Metrolinx Guelph subdivision are not representative of a passenger line. And that is clearly due to the fact that the line was only recently purchased by Metrolinx, and they're just starting to upgrade it now. In virtually every other case in Ontario, passenger-owned lines have fewer freight conflicts, higher track speeds, higher curve speeds and better maintenance.

- The VIA Chatham sub has a limit of 100 mph (161 km/h), compared to 80 mph (129 km/h) for the CN portion
- The VIA Alexandria and Smiths Falls subs also have limits of 100 mph (161 km/h), compared to 95 mph (153 km/h) on the CN Kingston sub.
- The Metrolinx Newmarket Sub manages to operate mostly at 80 mph (129 km/h) between Bradford and Barrie South despite the curvature of the line
- The Metrolinx Oakville Sub has a limit of 95 mph (153 km/h), compared to 80 mph on the Dundas Sub, or 65 mph (105 km/h) on the
- The Metrolinx Weston Sub has a limit of 80 mph (129 km/h), compared to 60-70 mph (97-112 mph). And Mx plans to further increase the Weston sub speed to 90 mph (145 km/h) too.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Mx plans to upgrade Weston to 90mph? Wasn't aware of that - that is good news.

Does anyone know if GO trains can do 100mph? I don't believe they operate on any track that allows that speed.

 

[smallspy]

Not at all. The issues with the Metrolinx Guelph subdivision are not representative of a passenger line. And that is clearly due to the fact that the line was only recently purchased by Metrolinx, and they're just starting to upgrade it now. In virtually every other case in Ontario, passenger-owned lines have fewer freight conflicts, higher track speeds, higher curve speeds and better maintenance.

Indeed, in the past it has taken GO some time to "round the troops" as it were, in order to organize a wholesale improvement program on a line that they own. It took them about 2 years from the time that they purchased the Uxbridge Sub, for instance, until the time that the rail was fully changed out to CWR.

A couple of nitpicks....

- The VIA Alexandria and Smiths Falls subs also have limits of 100 mph (161 km/h), compared to 95 mph (153 km/h) on the CN Kingston sub.

The Kingston Sub has many, many, many miles of 100mph track. Likely more than the rest of the VIA network in the Corridor combined.

- The Metrolinx Weston Sub has a limit of 80 mph (129 km/h), compared to 60-70 mph (97-112 mph). And Mx plans to further increase the Weston sub speed to 90 mph (145 km/h) too.

While they recently increased the zone speed from 75 to 80mph there are no current plans to increase it beyond that.

Does anyone know if GO trains can do 100mph? I don't believe they operate on any track that allows that speed.

The MP40PHs and MP54ACs are geared for a maximum speed of 93mph, and the F59PHs are geared for a maximum of 83mph. They can both be regeared to reach a higher top speed, but at the cost of acceleration.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[robmausser]

Based on my back-of-the-envelope calculation, increasing the ~1.4 mile Guelph slow zone from 10 mph to 30 mph should reduce the travel time by about 5 minutes, which would produce a scheduled travel time of 19 minutes (avg speed = 69 km/h) once the current construction is wrapped up. Hopefully subsequent upgrades will increase the speed limit from 70 mph (112 km/h) to at least 90 mph (145 km/h) to enable further time savings.



Not at all. The issues with the Metrolinx Guelph subdivision are not representative of a passenger line. And that is clearly due to the fact that the line was only recently purchased by Metrolinx, and they're just starting to upgrade it now. In virtually every other case in Ontario, passenger-owned lines have fewer freight conflicts, higher track speeds, higher curve speeds and better maintenance.

- The VIA Chatham sub has a limit of 100 mph (161 km/h), compared to 80 mph (129 km/h) for the CN portion
- The VIA Alexandria and Smiths Falls subs also have limits of 100 mph (161 km/h), compared to 95 mph (153 km/h) on the CN Kingston sub.
- The Metrolinx Newmarket Sub manages to operate mostly at 80 mph (129 km/h) between Bradford and Barrie South despite the curvature of the line
- The Metrolinx Oakville Sub has a limit of 95 mph (153 km/h), compared to 80 mph on the Dundas Sub, or 65 mph (105 km/h) on the
- The Metrolinx Weston Sub has a limit of 80 mph (129 km/h), compared to 60-70 mph (97-112 mph). And Mx plans to further increase the Weston sub speed to 90 mph (145 km/h) too.

You definitely have cherry picked examples, so I will do the same.

Kitchener Line after the CN ownership area (Brampton to Kitchener), Stouffvile Line and Barrie Line.

All 3 owned by Metrolinx and all 3 are slow, in terrible shape and mostly single track.

 

[crs1026]

^The thing I find so very odd about ML’s project strategy is how they intermingle the AFP projects, with their Byzantine RFQ-RFP preamble, and the Nike-style “Just do it” items like Guelph and Stouffville Subs.
If indeed ML intends to rework the Guelph Sub next year - and it does indeed sound like this will happen - where is the RFP? Can’t be a dollar threshold issue, as the Guelph Sub upgrade plus sidings and CTC changes will cost a bundle. I know that ML has an internal project approval process, so these decisions do not happen by chance.
My conspiracy theory is that ML is prone to turf discussions with empire builders elsewhere in the Ontario bureaucracy, and while they manage to keep some projects under the radar screen (perhaps using the tried and true tactic of breaking things into smaller project packages), the big high profile ones are prone to being ‘snatched’ by IO etc. And Ml may be happy to let some go, as their internal project management capability is probably constrained.
If it all gets done, great - but it sure seems that some projects get done expeditiously while others disappear in the black hole of RFP-RFQ space, never to hit shovel in the ground day.
- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

You definitely have cherry picked examples, so I will do the same.

Kitchener Line after the CN ownership area (Brampton to Kitchener), Stouffvile Line and Barrie Line.

All 3 owned by Metrolinx and all 3 are slow, in terrible shape and mostly single track.

Stouffville and Barrie might be single track and slow now, but upgrades (including a second track) are either planned or under construction. How does that factor into your conclusion?

 

[smallspy]

You definitely have cherry picked examples, so I will do the same.

Kitchener Line after the CN ownership area (Brampton to Kitchener), Stouffvile Line and Barrie Line.

All 3 owned by Metrolinx and all 3 are slow, in terrible shape and mostly single track.

I'm curious about how you define "terrible shape". All are Class 4 track, use CWR and in the case of the Stouffville and Barrie Lines, have had the vast majority of their ties replaced in the past 10 to 15 years.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[robmausser]

Stouffville and Barrie might be single track and slow now, but upgrades (including a second track) are either planned or under construction. How does that factor into your conclusion?

The fact that these lines were purchased a decade+ ago and the fact that the glacial pace that these 2nd tracks are being added in piecemeal fashion is what factors into it.

The entire lines should be Class 5 and double tracked by now.

 

[KevinT]

The MP40PHs and MP54ACs are geared for a maximum speed of 93mph, and the F59PHs are geared for a maximum of 83mph. They can both be regeared to reach a higher top speed, but at the cost of acceleration.

Do passenger locomotives use the same serial to parallel transition trick that freight locomotives use? If not, adding a serial mode may be a way to get more torque for starting off with taller gears, though it would mean a drop in the acceleration after transitioning. (Also, more complicated than simply 'swapping out gears'.)

 

[crs1026]

With all the double tracking currently happening what kind of service expansion do we expect in the next 1/2 years (prior to any EMU/true RER service improvements)?

All what doubletracking??? Apart from the Stouffville line, there’s not much on the immediate horizon. Most of the projects we are anticipating are still in design/procurement. Three years from now - 2021 - will be a good year, but precious little in 2019 and only a few improvements in 2020.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

Isn't there still a bunch of Double Tracking going on on the Barrie Line??

Yeah 5km, out of like 76km.

Whoop dee doo.

At this rate it will be double tracked in 2050.

 

[hw621]

Isn't there still a bunch of Double Tracking going on on the Barrie Line??

Also is this new:

" In the next ten years we’re aiming to bring you 15-minute, two-way service between Milliken GO and Union Station."

Was that ten years mentioned before....

RER case it should be 15 min AD2W between Unionville and Union 6 years from now (2024). And now it is only from Milliken and will be ten years from now?