News   Jul 31, 2020
 4.7K     0 
News   Jul 31, 2020
 3.3K     13 
News   Jul 31, 2020
 1.1K     3 

Getting Rid Of Unions

syn

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
4,449
Reaction score
2,013
Contracting out garbage probably would have happened regardless of who won this election (maybe not Joe) - it's an inevitable part of things.

Completely removing public sector unions is almost impossible, though. Certainly at the city level, there's not a lot of power. Provincially a lot more could be done, as they could reform the arbitration system so that unions don't actively try to force legislation that will get them in front of an arbitrator.

I think unions are important but public sector unions are challenging. With the private sector, there's a built-in incentive for the union and management to work together and compromise. If a car company is facing bankruptcy, the union will make concessions to ensure things stay afloat. In the public sector, the union doesn't necessarily have that motivation - the government has, essentially, a limitless supply of money for wages and can't go bankrupt.

It's an unworkable model and a challenging one. Anyone who purports to have easy answers related to these issues is lying to you.
How come? What would legally stop the city from walking away?
 

GraphicMatt

Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Member Bio
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
3,039
Reaction score
4
Labour laws firstly and secondly the cost of hiring and training thousands upon thousands of new workers. The TTC has almost 10,000 unionized employees, for example.
 

nrb

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
397
Reaction score
56
Personally, I wish there were more unions, and I will support them till the day I fucking die. Oh you're bitter about not getting paid enough or not having the same job security? Maybe you should go join a fucking union instead of bashing the people who still have good jobs because they weren't dumb enough to vote for idiots like rob ford.
 

Filip

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,538
Reaction score
870
Location
Београд
Personally, I wish there were more unions, and I will support them till the day I fucking die. Oh you're bitter about not getting paid enough or not having the same job security? Maybe you should go join a fucking union instead of bashing the people who still have good jobs because they weren't dumb enough to vote for idiots like rob ford.
I'm sorry. Most union members are grossly overpaid for the jobs they do, and not just that, but the union guarantees them job security no matter what dumbass moves they make!

Unions were a great idea back when employees were being exploited in dismal conditions. Now we have federal and provincial laws preventing this.. Unions are redundant and now just serve as a backrest for those not taking their job seriously.
 

Simple Man

Banned
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
61
Reaction score
1
Maybe you should go join a fucking union instead of bashing the people who still have good jobs because they weren't dumb enough to vote for idiots like rob ford.

Yes it is so easy to set up a union in a office workplace...

The reason why people really are going against Unions is because the people they do not represent the poor or oppressed anymore, they represent the privileged people in society.
Also it is the fault of Unions, why the TTC has so many unqualified, rude workers.
 

syn

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
4,449
Reaction score
2,013
Labour laws firstly and secondly the cost of hiring and training thousands upon thousands of new workers. The TTC has almost 10,000 unionized employees, for example.
Thanks for the answers, it's appreciated. What laws would prevent the city from easily switching over to a private provider for public transit, but wouldn't do so when it comes to garbage collection?

One thing that's interesting is that even Rob Ford's estimates have the city saving $20 million by privatizing garbage collection. That's good, but it's really a small fraction of the overall budget. Many people I know think the city would save billions by switching to private providers.
 

mangasparky

Banned
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
131
Reaction score
0
These idiots keep on coming.. not really understanding how unions work, or how they differ from one another. They can't see the good they do. It's all envy.
 

salvius

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
402
Reaction score
0
One thing that's interesting is that even Rob Ford's estimates have the city saving $20 million by privatizing garbage collection. That's good, but it's really a small fraction of the overall budget. Many people I know think the city would save billions by switching to private providers.
Nothing strange about that though. How many people have the vaguest idea of what the budget of the city of Toronto looks like?
 

GraphicMatt

Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Member Bio
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
3,039
Reaction score
4
Thanks for the answers, it's appreciated. What laws would prevent the city from easily switching over to a private provider for public transit, but wouldn't do so when it comes to garbage collection?

One thing that's interesting is that even Rob Ford's estimates have the city saving $20 million by privatizing garbage collection. That's good, but it's really a small fraction of the overall budget. Many people I know think the city would save billions by switching to private providers.
There are a number of labour laws in this province devoted to protecting employees and unions. I don't have a firm grasp on them myself but suffice it to say that Ontario is a province with a very strong union history and the laws reflect that.

To be clear, there's a difference between getting rid of unions completely and contracting out services. Contracting out is possible, if done carefully. In some cases you wouldn't be able to get rid of the unionized employees responsible for, say, garbage collection, should that get contracted out. You'd have to reassign them to other jobs within the city or look at buying them out into early retirement.

I think the TTC should eliminate the ticket taker position, and maybe contract out cleaning. These are all workable because there are alternatives in the first case (automation) and reputable vendors to do the work in the other (cleaning companies). You're not going to be able to award a contract to a company that just happens to have thousands of bus drivers and streetcar operators ready to work for you.

And the city's budget is only 9 billion a year. Garbage is a very small part of that. Our current garbage collectors don't make significantly more than the private-sector workers in Etobicoke. If done, it wouldn't be so much for the savings as it would be to avoid a protracted strike in the future. Though there's no guarantee even with a private company. (See: DriveTest)
 

Simple Man

Banned
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
61
Reaction score
1
no..


In Peel when we had our strike, people were easily able to put their garbage in the collection sites, did not have to cross picket lines.
 

spider

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,214
Reaction score
1
In Peel when we had our strike, people were easily able to put their garbage in the collection sites, did not have to cross picket lines.
I live in Toronto and was able to drive my garbage to a collection site with very little interference by the union pickets, I realize that some were not so fortunate.

Had Miller instructed the Police to prevent picketer interference and hired firms to truck the garbage from the collection sites to the dump the strike would have been over in a week.

If I can hire someone to cut my grass, shovel my snow and cart away trash why can't I hire a firm to take my garbage away.
 

Second_in_pie

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
2,212
Reaction score
1
Location
Markham
I'm sorry. Most union members are grossly overpaid for the jobs they do, and not just that, but the union guarantees them job security no matter what dumbass moves they make!

Unions were a great idea back when employees were being exploited in dismal conditions. Now we have federal and provincial laws preventing this.. Unions are redundant and now just serve as a backrest for those not taking their job seriously.
Exactly. For instance, it's near-impossible to actually fire a teacher in the current union environment. They have way, way too much power. I don't want union workers to be the powerless people that they used to be, but they wouldn't be so. Are office workers abused and given deplorable working conditions? All unions are useful for nowadays are unfair mob-based money grabs.
 

The_Waffler

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Location
Scarborough
Personally, I wish there were more unions, and I will support them till the day I fucking die. Oh you're bitter about not getting paid enough or not having the same job security? Maybe you should go join a fucking union instead of bashing the people who still have good jobs because they weren't dumb enough to vote for idiots like rob ford.
Tell that to the US Steel employees in Hamilton and Nanticoke, Ontario. Their union really got them great job security... wait, the plants are indefinitely closed. Yet non-union Dofasco workers still have jobs. Unions promote excesses that eventually kill the company. Doesn't work that way in Gov't because the unit of measure is votes, not profits.
 
Last edited:

Top